Simple rotation system

Pasty

Member
Location
Devon
I've got this half idea for a 4 paddock system. I raise maybe 200 chickens a year and like to do so on grass. This requires an area approx. 50m square to stop them destroying it. So I was thinking of building a fox proof fence, 100m x 100m and then dividing into 4 squares. The rotation would be chickens on grass in year 1. Then pigs in year 2 who would trash it but add more manure on top of the pullets and hopefully keep the weeds down. Then veg (spuds, leeks, brassicas etc.) in year 3 and back to grass in year 4 to finish some geese for the Xmas market or graze with sheep later in the year.

We are on heavy clay but have a few well drained, flat areas where I could try this. Any thoughts?
 

KMA

Member
Location
Dumfriesshire
Sounds like a good idea, you'll lose fair bit of your veg plot to margins though and I would think it'll be a bit costly to set up the infrastructure. As you're on clay I'd also be tempted to look up the practicality of putting in drainage BEFORE you do anything else :D:whistle:, if you've got room to get machinery in it's really not that big a job, just in postage stamps like mine that it's a real slog.

Be interested to see how you get on.
 
Agree with KMA, although I think the fencing costs could be recovered if you are selling the produce direct. Each plot will be 2500sq m, so not so small for those of us accustomed to smaller areages and market garden type crops. Plenty big enough to use a tractor for the work.

It is a 3 course rotatio though. 2 years grass and one year veg. The does not work with 4 blocks. You need two grass and two veg or another plan.
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
It sounds like a fairly sound scheme.
Would definitely echo the escaping pigs scenario, slippery lil beggars that they are!
I'd suggest perhaps an extra paddock however, to help the recovery/structure/ sustainability side of things on a clay. It would possibly give you better scope for establishment, and stocking rate of said grass, if you had 5 paddocks not 4. Can always put a sheep or two into the system? Eg. 3 grass 2 veg?
I'm about to embark on a more free-range version of the same idea, but the pigs are giving me a ball-ache regarding containment. Their idea of free range will always prevail!!
Best of luck, love your approach to your farming BTW.
 
Fox proof fence is not the problem. You need pig proof once the pigs find the veg plot there will be no stopping them. Been there got the T shirt.
Electric is the only way, start them off with a shock when they are young and they are trained. Mine are sometimes held in with a single wire (that is a lot of the time dead as the battery is flat)

I have a single wire 18 inches off the ground, that is to keep the sows/boar in, behind that by about 18 inches is an electric rabbit net, live when the piglets are small but dead when they get bigger. I leave it up as it stops them from being able to take a dive under the wire. Very rarely do they escape.
 

renewablejohn

Member
Location
lancs
Electric is the only way, start them off with a shock when they are young and they are trained. Mine are sometimes held in with a single wire (that is a lot of the time dead as the battery is flat)

I have a single wire 18 inches off the ground, that is to keep the sows/boar in, behind that by about 18 inches is an electric rabbit net, live when the piglets are small but dead when they get bigger. I leave it up as it stops them from being able to take a dive under the wire. Very rarely do they escape.

Always amazes me how intelligent pigs are which is why I like them unlike sheep who seem to have a death wish. Mine have dug under the single wire and pushed soil up against the electric rabbit netting. Most effective boundary I have is a stream with a floating electric fence on polysterene squares. Only need to escape once to seriously destroy your veg patch.
 

Pasty

Member
Location
Devon
Maybe pigs are not ideal in this plan then. The idea was really to generate a clean grass area for raising pullets with a 3 year poultry rest, a clean area for 3 or so weaners with 3 year rest. Then a heavily fertile area for veg, then a year of recovery / light grazing with sheep. So each paddock would be:

Year 1: Grass with growing pullets from April ish to Oct when they go in the polytunnel for the winter. Lots of manure but potential for some sward damage.
Year 2: Pigs to sort weeds and add more manure. Obviously sward wrecked. Can be supplemented with waste veg. Once they are gone in Autumn, rotavate and plant a green manure cover crop for the winter.
Year 3: Rotavate the green manure in spring and start planting outdoor veg through the year. Spuds, leeks, cabbage etc. etc.
Year 4: Finish harvest and re-seed with grass. Rest for the year with maybe control grazing with sheep to keep tidy later on.

Perhaps it would be better to remove the pig part altogether and do them elsewhere? Just go straight to green manure after poultry. Pigs would only really be for our own freezer and the rest sold to friends, not really a commercial operation. I have read that Large (Devon) Blacks can be moved around pasture without too much damage due to their floppy ears but am not totally convinced on that. So maybe they could follow the sheep?
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
Maybe pigs are not ideal in this plan then. The idea was really to generate a clean grass area for raising pullets with a 3 year poultry rest, a clean area for 3 or so weaners with 3 year rest. Then a heavily fertile area for veg, then a year of recovery / light grazing with sheep. So each paddock would be:

Year 1: Grass with growing pullets from April ish to Oct when they go in the polytunnel for the winter. Lots of manure but potential for some sward damage.
Year 2: Pigs to sort weeds and add more manure. Obviously sward wrecked. Can be supplemented with waste veg. Once they are gone in Autumn, rotavate and plant a green manure cover crop for the winter.
Year 3: Rotavate the green manure in spring and start planting outdoor veg through the year. Spuds, leeks, cabbage etc. etc.
Year 4: Finish harvest and re-seed with grass. Rest for the year with maybe control grazing with sheep to keep tidy later on.

Perhaps it would be better to remove the pig part altogether and do them elsewhere? Just go straight to green manure after poultry. Pigs would only really be for our own freezer and the rest sold to friends, not really a commercial operation. I have read that Large (Devon) Blacks can be moved around pasture without too much damage due to their floppy ears but am not totally convinced on that. So maybe they could follow the sheep?
There's a guy near here who has about 1200 big pigs in sheds used primarily for cultivation work. I get my weaners off him, so I'll run your idea past him next time.
I don't think pigs will be bad for your system as long as you keep the nimbers right (y) I think you could be on the right track with a few sheep, they'd hopefully tiller out the grass a bit but be gentle on it still, which would possibly benefit the other animal's environment too? Plus give you an extra year in the round to help keep the profits up for starters, simple creatures and yumm o
I've got chooks after the other stock and looking to use them as wormers and fertiliser spreaders, my next project.
 

KMA

Member
Location
Dumfriesshire
Sheep would be in my rotation but then I was handed a bottle and taken to feed the 'pet' as soon as I could stand, decent rylock fence will keep them in.
 
Ive never tried the pigs approach I agree its adding additional work and could be disastrous. The fella is really into his electrical fence system and locking the hens in the house at night takes away many fox problems. I think but not scientific an elec fence is good for deterring foxes anyway. CCTV could be additional back up. Our 3 pigs were up on the bank and thrived well up there. There was a full agri fence around. We only went up there to feed it was extremely low input. They are now in the cattle shed (on top of dried muck which they are turning over nicely) getting fatter by the day and now too big to take to kill so mucked up there (thats another story of being too busy to do it all).
 

Pasty

Member
Location
Devon
There's a guy near here who has about 1200 big pigs in sheds used primarily for cultivation work. I get my weaners off him, so I'll run your idea past him next time.
I don't think pigs will be bad for your system as long as you keep the nimbers right (y) I think you could be on the right track with a few sheep, they'd hopefully tiller out the grass a bit but be gentle on it still, which would possibly benefit the other animal's environment too? Plus give you an extra year in the round to help keep the profits up for starters, simple creatures and yumm o
I've got chooks after the other stock and looking to use them as wormers and fertiliser spreaders, my next project.
Yeah, got sheep anyway so they would just be used to fine tune the new grass really. My main focus of this little project would be to provide a perfectly clean pasture for growing hens and also a good base to grow veg for our family and maybe a bit for sale / a bit for feed. I think paddock design may prevent the pigs from seeing the veg but I've never kept pigs. My Grandad was head pig man at Seale Hayne college so I have plenty of experience with them and know how powerful and destructive they can be if they want out.
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
Ive never tried the pigs approach I agree its adding additional work and could be disastrous. The fella is really into his electrical fence system and locking the hens in the house at night takes away many fox problems. I think but not scientific an elec fence is good for deterring foxes anyway. CCTV could be additional back up. Our 3 pigs were up on the bank and thrived well up there. There was a full agri fence around. We only went up there to feed it was extremely low input. They are now in the cattle shed (on top of dried muck which they are turning over nicely) getting fatter by the day and now too big to take to kill so mucked up there (thats another story of being too busy to do it all).
I had 4 pigs in my little tunnel barn after the cattle and they did a perfect job in the muck. I put in a heap of pea straw and they turned it all over searching out peas.
It's about 500m2 or so and it took them about 3 months or so to do their work and be a good size for the freezer. Really did well in their plastic house.
How would flexinets ie 7 strands? of electric work for temporary fencing and as an extra barrier. I have some but no foxes here luckily. I like photos of foxes but glad not to have them here. Cats are the worst I've got to keep from hens.
 

Pasty

Member
Location
Devon
I had 4 pigs in my little tunnel barn after the cattle and they did a perfect job in the muck. I put in a heap of pea straw and they turned it all over searching out peas.
It's about 500m2 or so and it took them about 3 months or so to do their work and be a good size for the freezer. Really did well in their plastic house.
How would flexinets ie 7 strands? of electric work for temporary fencing and as an extra barrier. I have some but no foxes here luckily. I like photos of foxes but glad not to have them here. Cats are the worst I've got to keep from hens.
Flexinet is great for foxes but hard to keep working well in a permanent setting. Main issue would be forage growth shorting it out. It lends itself perfectly to mobile chicken runs. I have never had a fox get in a properly working net. Most who state the opposite have let them get weak through neglect and I have fallen 'fowl' of this too. There is also an issue with rabbits chewing out the verticals and ruining the fence but again, this is probably only when it's not 'hot'. I would think in this setting you would want wooden posts with poultry proof wire on the inside, maybe 5' high with strands of electric above. Then on the outside of the posts you could either run multi strands of electric wire or fix a net very securely. You would have to have a ground covering of DPM or similar (folded feed bags!) under the electric to stop grass growth and this could be set underneath some mesh, maybe from the inner fence, turned out. This would stop growth and digging from rabbits / foxes plus provide a double electric barrier.

I'm now thinking a 3 year rotation may be better and just do pigs elsewhere. Poultry is hard to keep in / protect but they don't tend to trash stuff so the infrastructure is of a significantly different nature to a pig pen I think. So poultry in year 1 then they go in the polytunnel in October when we plant green manure over any torn up bits, or all of it! Dig it all over in Spring year 2, add rotted manure and plant out veg. Year 3, finish harvesting and return to grass with a full season to recover, grazed lightly by sheep when required.
 

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