Slaughter codes for halal

[Bruce Almighty]

Don’t be fooled by halal pre stunning. They use a recoverable stun because the animal has to be conscious when its throat is cut. If the animal is not conscious then the meat is Haram not Halal! Do you really want your animals to die in fear and pain because that is what halal and kosher is! A totally cruel barbaric and medieval slaughter that has no place in modern Britain! It needs to be banned!

There's a very big sheep abattoir near here, they have the prayer tape playing to tick the box & they pre-stun. I understand this allows them to sell it as Halal ? I believe they export most of the lamb to Europe.

On a different note I was recently talking to a Sri Lankan Muslim who lives in London. He told me that Halal means "clean" or " done properly"
He said that any disease in the animal was in the blood so that was why it was important to them to drain the blood, which made it clean.
I wasn't in the mood for a row with him, but was prepared to listen to their justification for what they do
To me it shows their ignorance, do they traditionally kill "sick" animals before they die ? Is this why they drain the blood in such a way ?
Is this how curries came about in India, to hide the taste of rancid meat ?

I've heard many a tale from days gone by, when "Granny would put a hen in the pot" if it didn't look very well. In other words, kill it & eat it before it dies. Is this how Muslims think ? In those days gone by, the chicken would have had their neck pulled & that was that, wouldn't have been any pre-stunning ?

In case you are in any doubt, I would like to see Halal with no pre-stunning banned in this country

 

[Smith31]

There's a very big sheep abattoir near here, they have the prayer tape playing to tick the box & they pre-stun. I understand this allows them to sell it as Halal ? I believe they export most of the lamb to Europe.

On a different note I was recently talking to a Sri Lankan Muslim who lives in London. He told me that Halal means "clean" or " done properly"
He said that any disease in the animal was in the blood so that was why it was important to them to drain the blood, which made it clean.
I wasn't in the mood for a row with him, but was prepared to listen to their justification for what they do
To me it shows their ignorance, do they traditionally kill "sick" animals before they die ? Is this why they drain the blood in such a way ?
Is this how curries came about in India, to hide the taste of rancid meat ?

I've heard many a tale from days gone by, when "Granny would put a hen in the pot" if it didn't look very well. In other words, kill it & eat it before it dies. Is this how Muslims think ? In those days gone by, the chicken would have had their neck pulled & that was that, wouldn't have been any pre-stunning ?

In case you are in any doubt, I would like to see Halal with no pre-stunning banned in this country

I was once told by an old Christian butcher that God told Noah not to consume blood, so as a Christian he ensured that all the blood was removed from his animals to eradicate any blood toxins.

The problem is not halal, it is carried out in abattoirs which are highly regulated and have full time cctv.

If the same abattoir vets and full time cctv monitoring were introduced to farms throughout the country 99%of farmers would pack in within a few months. As the fines would be eye watering and based upon the farmers wealth. I know of abattoirs which have been fine astronomical amounts for minor breaches.

The problem is that the general public and the vast majority of farmers don't have a clue what goes on in an abattoir and talk rubbish.

No doubt a day will come when both halal and kosher will be banned, allowing the supermarkets to take control of the market. We will then have farmers on here moaning about why their ewes, tups, cull cows and off spec bulls and hoggs are worth nothing. They will also be moaning about a lack of competition in the marts as the halal buyers will no longer be there to bid against the meat cartels.

Only a few days ago we were going through some old invoices, we were buying and selling ewes at £6 a head in 1998. Those days will return when the supermarkets educate the Muslim consumers not to consume the by products of British livestock farming i.e ewes. I can't see Woodheads killing old tups or ewes. Hopefully I will be retired by then.

 

[Lara Croft]

Do these animals look stunned to you ????

 

[Lindell]

Do these animals look stunned to you ????

Thank you for showing this. I refuse to sell my livestock through the markets because of this abomination. The fact that it a cheaper method also probably comes into it. We call ourselves a civilised country !

 

[Woolless]

Do these animals look stunned to you ????

Non-stun slaughter of cattle is much harder to defend than that of sheep, given the different blood supply to the brain. If they must persist in cutting their throat without stunning, then they should be shot soon afterwards. If you got to the end, then you would notice how quickly the sheep lost consciousness. I would rather they were all stunned, for the avoidance of doubt.

I don't think that footage was filmed in this country. Those goats should have been allowed to bleed for 20 seconds before shackling, for instance.

 

[Lindell]

Non-stun slaughter of cattle is much harder to defend than that of sheep, given the different blood supply to the brain. If they must persist in cutting their throat without stunning, then they should be shot soon afterwards. If you got to the end, then you would notice how quickly the sheep lost consciousness. I would rather they were all stunned, for the avoidance of doubt.

I don't think that footage was filmed in this country. Those goats should have been allowed to bleed for 20 seconds before shackling, for instance.

There's a lot of rules that should be followed- doesn't mean they are. This abuse is just feeding the vegans campaign.

 

[Highland Mule]

There's a lot of rules that should be followed- doesn't mean they are. This abuse is just feeding the vegans campaign.

Agreed, but is it a true reflection on reality for a UK abattoir, or just lies and propaganda? We should fight for improved standards, yes, but not as a response to a lie. I could put up footage of an animal being killed in a country with no welfare standards and claim it’s from Glasgow and some folks would use it as an excuse to condemn all Scots, but it would be a lie.

As an aside, I don’t respect any film that has a title of “Halal killing”, for reasons I’ve explained many times. Most Halal is stunned and respects the animal, just like most Glaswegians are normal people. This is a video of instunned killing first and foremost - possibly Halal, possibly Kosher and possibly brutal idiocy. A cry for no more unstunned slaughter I can support, a cry to ban all Halal, I can’t.

 

[Lara Croft]

Non-stun slaughter of cattle is much harder to defend than that of sheep, given the different blood supply to the brain. If they must persist in cutting their throat without stunning, then they should be shot soon afterwards. If you got to the end, then you would notice how quickly the sheep lost consciousness. I would rather they were all stunned, for the avoidance of doubt.

I don't think that footage was filmed in this country. Those goats should have been allowed to bleed for 20 seconds before shackling, for instance.

I watched this to the very end and it made me want to vomit.
No disrespect intended to you, but I couldn't care less if it's cattle, goats, sheep or how quickly the animal lost consciousness as I believe that there is still no place for this type of slaughter in this country. I'd also go as far as to say that the rules are probably broken all the time such is the hardline nature of their religion. They're not exactly known for supporting western values. There is no indication as to which country that this is filmed in as that's irrelevant. The video is designed to show the total brutality of the process.
As for stunning without becoming brain dead and therefore still conscious, doesn't cut it for me. There has to be an element of risk that the stun will wear off so It can't be as effective and therefore the animal is exposed to a much higher level of needless stress and suffering.

 

[Lara Croft]

Agreed, but is it a true reflection on reality for a UK abattoir, or just lies and propaganda? We should fight for improved standards, yes, but not as a response to a lie. I could put up footage of an animal being killed in a country with no welfare standards and claim it’s from Glasgow and some folks would use it as an excuse to condemn all Scots, but it would be a lie.

As an aside, I don’t respect any film that has a title of “Halal killing”, for reasons I’ve explained many times. Most Halal is stunned and respects the animal, just like most Glaswegians are normal people. This is a video of instunned killing first and foremost - possibly Halal, possibly Kosher and possibly brutal idiocy. A cry for no more unstunned slaughter I can support, a cry to ban all Halal, I can’t.

Is it "not" a true reflection and merely propaganda ? We don't know do we. I watched this all the way through, and forgive me if I missed it but I don't remember seeing any reference to suggest it was or wasn't a UK abattoir.
As I understood it, Halal is the slaughter of an animal that is alive and not dead. The Saudi's took years to accept stunned slaughter as initially they refused to accept that stunning didn't run the risk of killing the animal which probably adds weight to the argument that the stunning process used for halal isn't as severe to avoid inadvertently killing the animal and therefore runs the risk of it still being very much aware of what is happening. Halal, Kosher or whatever they choose to call this practice is prehistoric and has no place in a civilised society.
To avoid any doubt whatsoever and to keep everyone (exception of 4% muslim population) happy, just render the animal brain dead first. Easy solution, no more problems, no more arguments.

 

[Highland Mule]

Muslims make up a quarter of the world’s population and most Halal is killed by recoverable stun, just the same as non-halal “conventional” UK slaughter is. If you’re not happy with your meat being killed by recoverable stun followed by bleeding out, I suggest you become a vegetarian or stick to unfarmed venison. Don’t eat fish as it is suffocated in air, and steer clear of any farmed vegetables as their production will cause untold numbers of insects and small animals to die horrid deaths through poisoning. Oh, and don’t have any pets, as they will no doubt be wormed which is terribly cruel to the worms.

I’m fact, if you want to avoid causing pain and suffering to other species, the only way is to cause it to yourself, briefly, and say goodbye to your own life. I’m not advocating that, by the way, as it causes huge emotional damage to those close to you. Just highlighting the life we all live.

If you want to live and make a difference, stop associating non stun death with a religion - plenty Christians, agnostics and atheists get their food killed in this manner as well. Campaign to end UK non-stun slaughter and you might get respect, campaign to stop Halal and you will be (rightly in my opinion) accused of spreading uninformed islamaphobia.

 

[Woolless]

Is it "not" a true reflection and merely propaganda ? We don't know do we. I watched this all the way through, and forgive me if I missed it but I don't remember seeing any reference to suggest it was or wasn't a UK abattoir.
As I understood it, Halal is the slaughter of an animal that is alive and not dead. The Saudi's took years to accept stunned slaughter as initially they refused to accept that stunning didn't run the risk of killing the animal which probably adds weight to the argument that the stunning process used for halal isn't as severe to avoid inadvertently killing the animal and therefore runs the risk of it still being very much aware of what is happening. Halal, Kosher or whatever they choose to call this practice is prehistoric and has no place in a civilised society.
To avoid any doubt whatsoever and to keep everyone (exception of 4% muslim population) happy, just render the animal brain dead first. Easy solution, no more problems, no more arguments.

Most halal sheep are electrically stunned, which is reversible. As are most 'conventional' sheep.

 

[Lindell]

Muslims make up a quarter of the world’s population and most Halal is killed by recoverable stun, just the same as non-halal “conventional” UK slaughter is. If you’re not happy with your meat being killed by recoverable stun followed by bleeding out, I suggest you become a vegetarian or stick to unfarmed venison. Don’t eat fish as it is suffocated in air, and steer clear of any farmed vegetables as their production will cause untold numbers of insects and small animals to die horrid deaths through poisoning. Oh, and don’t have any pets, as they will no doubt be wormed which is terribly cruel to the worms.

I’m fact, if you want to avoid causing pain and suffering to other species, the only way is to cause it to yourself, briefly, and say goodbye to your own life. I’m not advocating that, by the way, as it causes huge emotional damage to those close to you. Just highlighting the life we all live.

If you want to live and make a difference, stop associating non stun death with a religion - plenty Christians, agnostics and atheists get their food killed in this manner as well. Campaign to end UK non-stun slaughter and you might get respect, campaign to stop Halal and you will be (rightly in my opinion) accused of spreading uninformed islamaphobia.

Most halal sheep are electrically stunned, which is reversible. As are most 'conventional' sheep.

Most halal sheep are electrically stunned, which is reversible. As are most 'conventional' sheep.

 

[Lindell]

This video is aimed at the General Public., who probably don't recognise " Shechita " but do recognise " Halal " It's not islamophbia- which is the old chestnut ! Its about care for animals in a slaughterhouse. People can speak as many prayers as they want over the animal once its stunned. The General Public do not want to go into the minutiae of recoverable stun or post cut stun, they see avoidable cruelty. The reason meat is not labelled as such in the supermarkets is because of the backlash. The same goes for the realisation of what meat is being used in school dinners

 

[Highland Mule]

This video is aimed at the General Public., who probably don't recognise " Shechita " but do recognise " Halal " It's not islamophbia- which is the old chestnut ! Its about care for animals in a slaughterhouse. People can speak as many prayers as they want over the animal once its stunned. The General Public do not want to go into the minutiae of recoverable stun or post cut stun, they see avoidable cruelty. The reason meat is not labelled as such in the supermarkets is because of the backlash. The same goes for the realisation of what meat is being used in school dinners

But most don’t know what Halal is - as don’t many on here, yourself included.

I heard there’s been a murderer from Shropshire once - does that mean all English people are murderers? Nope, of course not.

Most Halal is not stun, and some non-stun is not Halal, so take a wee Venn diagram and then try and justify calling it Halal for any other reason than prejudice.

Edit - here's one I've just prepared, to help you a bit.

 

[The_Swede]

Quite simply indefensible in any respect.

The secular society, BVA and RSPCA currently have a campaign running, I encourage all concerned to sign up. https://www.secularism.org.uk/religious-slaughter/

I haven't the time to enter into a pointless debate re restricted markets etc in response to some of the drivel spouted previously but the basic case is this; with the rise of veganism, public perception and expected standards we as a wider industry simply cannot be seen to be in any way complicit or supportive of scenes such as those above, lest will soon have no market at all.

Mr Gove appears to have strong views and principles in some respects of his current brief, engage in the above petition and lets see what he is made of with this regard.

 

[unlacedgecko]

 

[The_Swede]

Yes seen before - decent enough publication but as alluded to above its somewhat different with bovines given their physiological makeup. Even leaving that important difference aside non-stun with cattle or sheep is driven by either (or both) religious dogma or abattoir throughput.
Neither of these are acceptable reasons for the increased suffering at slaughter in either the BVA or my personal opinion.

 

[Woolless]

Yes seen before - decent enough publication but as alluded to above its somewhat different with bovines given their physiological makeup. Even leaving that important difference aside non-stun with cattle or sheep is driven by either (or both) religious dogma or abattoir throughput.
Neither of these are acceptable reasons for the increased suffering at slaughter in either the BVA or my personal opinion.

Non-stun slaughter will slow abattoir throughput, not speed it up. Sheep need to bleed for 20 seconds before shackling. Can be hung up immediately if stunned.

 

[The_Swede]

OK, Efficiency, reduce overall costs - you get the gist. If supply is increasing and significantly outstripping demand there must be some economic angle at play for the processors. https://www.secularism.org.uk/news/...emption-amid-sharp-rise-in-non-stun-slaughter

 

[Lara Croft]

Muslims make up a quarter of the world’s population and most Halal is killed by recoverable stun, just the same as non-halal “conventional” UK slaughter is. If you’re not happy with your meat being killed by recoverable stun followed by bleeding out, I suggest you become a vegetarian or stick to unfarmed venison. Don’t eat fish as it is suffocated in air, and steer clear of any farmed vegetables as their production will cause untold numbers of insects and small animals to die horrid deaths through poisoning. Oh, and don’t have any pets, as they will no doubt be wormed which is terribly cruel to the worms.

I’m fact, if you want to avoid causing pain and suffering to other species, the only way is to cause it to yourself, briefly, and say goodbye to your own life. I’m not advocating that, by the way, as it causes huge emotional damage to those close to you. Just highlighting the life we all live.

If you want to live and make a difference, stop associating non stun death with a religion - plenty Christians, agnostics and atheists get their food killed in this manner as well. Campaign to end UK non-stun slaughter and you might get respect, campaign to stop Halal and you will be (rightly in my opinion) accused of spreading uninformed islamaphobia.

I wondered how long it would take for someone to drag the debate down to a personal sniping level.
Don't throw the libtard "islamaphobia" at me and use pathetic examples to prove what is clearly a misguided point of view. It has bugger all to do with what my opinion is of religion. It's all about animal welfare. You know F**K all about me so let's keep this civil and please try to resist your primitive verbal instincts.