Slugs (again)

[Tractor Boy]

I dont know why some of you boys over east want to make things so hard for yourself. Anything following 4t/acre wheat straw is going to be tricky. Why not chop wheat straw and drill spring barley or beans and bale spring barley straw and drill osr? If growing a second wheat or winter barley into a first wheat it is going to be one of the trickiest ones to do so why start there? Or just bale it. When starting off baling is a good tool to keep you flexible

Because there seriously is no market for straw. The only livestock is outdoor pigs and they want it from blackgrass free land. The only reason sp barley is grown here is for blackgrass suppression. Also I don't grow rape as it is a disaster for flea beetle and slugs on all but the lightest land. It just happened that some of my best fields for low blackgrass that I wanted to put wheat in were 2nd wheat or after spring barley.
I've come to the conclusion winter wheat can only be first wheat. What other breaks can I use though apart from beans and linseed? Already got a large acreage of Spring oats,wheat and barley planned.

 

[Dan Powell]

Basically this thread is the reason min till was invented back in the 80s. I'm not saying it's better because it creates other problems but it solves some of the issues discussed here. I'm 90% sure I'm going to be doing more very shallow tillage going forward because no till is not working here at the moment. I see this as a temporary thing until I get better surface organic matter or someone comes up with a sure fire way of dealing with the slug issue. I can still no till if conditions are right but no more dogmatism here for a few years... I can't afford it.

 

[Feldspar]

The erstwhile Elmsted always was a fan of using no-till as one tool in the tool-kit, and he was dead against dogmatism. I forget what his underlying reasoning was though. I am definitely glad that we had the Terrastar this year. Not the perfect bit of kit, but I feel we've managed our risk a lot better from its use.

 

[shakerator]

Basically this thread is the reason min till was invented back in the 80s. I'm not saying it's better because it creates other problems but it solves some of the issues discussed here. I'm 90% sure I'm going to be doing more very shallow tillage going forward because no till is not working here at the moment. I see this as a temporary thing until I get better surface organic matter or someone comes up with a sure fire way of dealing with the slug issue. I can still no till if conditions are right but no more dogmatism here for a few years... I can't afford it.

do you bale your straw ?

 

[Dan Powell]

do you bale your straw ?

Cereal straw yes - it all comes back as muck and then we're using a bit of PAS100 and chicken litter too in places.

 

[ollie989898]

You must must must harrow AND roll if you are going down the no-till or 'low level' min-till route.

Grass is the classic. If you leave a coarse/lumpy seed bed the slugs will smell the germinating seed and head down and eat it- they will not surface for your pellets every time.

I am convinced 50% of the game is seed bed. If you have a poor one you are on a losing wicket no matter how many pellets you get on.

Looked at my direct drilling Claydoned customers stuff today. Can't find a slug very easily and most of the seeds I dug about to find were perfectly intact. Dry and cold weather I think has driven the little sods down out of the way.

 

[Feldspar]

I was thinking again today about this depression towards zero-till this year. If there is a struggle this year, we ought to be seriously depressed. We have had the just about the ideal harvest and beginning to autumn to show scatch-till and zero-till in a good light - i.e. dry, dry, dry. No harvest traffic damage, enough rain to be able to shallow cultivate, but nowhere near enough to allow the ploughs to work properly. Nice long settled period with the odd little rain to enable us to drill in a pretty relaxed fashion. Not saying we aren't heading for a BG disaster, but I couldn't have wished for better drilling conditions that could feasibly occur in the real world. Our drilling into ploughed land is very dry and only patchy emergence. Shallow moved barley is coming up nicely where the moisture was retained and the seed to soil contact was better - a relief given the very low seed rate for hybrids. A few slugs around atm but barely enough to pellet for. I did pellet a few places given what people have been saying on here.

First main block of zero-tilled wheat was, as Will cautioned against, into a 4 t/ac wheat stubble. Soil conditions were beautiful and stubble cut high. Still not getting amazing seed placement where there are slight bunches of straw. Don't think we could hope for better though, so this will be a good litmus test.

(A particularly small and awkward field that @Simon Chiles probably wouldn't even bother to crop.)

 

[Breakthru]

Slug control effects with Breakthru.Rain break allowed me to catch up with some new and existing users.
It is neither nuclear nor napalm so even where spraying at dusk (best effect) not all slugs will be present.
Those that are left or new hatchings will be very uncomfortable plus where foliage has been sprayed will not graze.
You will find the slugs present to be relatively inactive compared to control areas. Lincs user since 2012 noticed fertiliser effect on damaged plants.
Long term user who only sprays Osr land now says he has slugs in his fields as he can see the odd leaf with a hole in it but is convinced that by not blasting poisons all over the place that natural predators are keeping damage to very acceptable levels. Slugs do have a place in the ecosystem it is just keeping them under control that is key.

 

[Dan Powell]

@Breakthru what is your product though if not a poison? What is the mode of action?

Do you recommend using your product alongside pellets or instead of them?

Why at dusk? Aren't slugs more active at night?

How rainfast is the product? Are repeat applications necessary? How long do the effects from an application last?

Cost per acre per application?

Next year I'm willing to have a go subject to hearing positive reports from other users.

I take the point some others have made that pelleting begets more pelleting as beneficials won't build up but at some point you need to save a crop by doing something.

 

[ollie989898]

Well chappers I have been not doing a terrible lot due to the most evil flu but but in the last 10 days I have seen precisely zero slug activity- I can conclude it was too cold and dry for them. Provided the stuff emerges evenly and fairly quickly, I think we will dodge it this year.

 

[335]

Was in some emerged winter barley the other day which had breakthrough applied a few days previous. Found a couple of slugs but they weren't very healthy. They weren't moving. Have a field over the road with radish/rye/phacelia cover growing. This had an application of pellets as it emerged in august and it was crawling with slugs. All very active. The cover is strong enough to grow past them now but just shows the effect the product is having

 

[Breakthru]

@Breakthru what is your product though if not a poison? What is the mode of action?

Do you recommend using your product alongside pellets or instead of them?

Why at dusk? Aren't slugs more active at night?

How rainfast is the product? Are repeat applications necessary? How long do the effects from an application last?

Cost per acre per application?

Next year I'm willing to have a go subject to hearing positive reports from other users.

I take the point some others have made that pelleting begets more pelleting as beneficials won't build up but at some point you need to save a crop by doing something.

Eu reg fertiliser.
Instead of.
Restricts movement so if they are active as in around dusk is most effective.
Use Anchor with it so is reasonably rainfast, will not stand a monsoon though.
1.0kg/ha in 100ltr /ha water £10/ha
For trial purposes I am quite adamant you use my "prescription" that way there is no dubiety about what is happening.
Use 0.25ltr/1000ltr of spray Balance (citric acid water conditioner, is in Breakthru) 0.5ltr >250ppm free cations.
1.0kg/ha Breakthru
0.1ltr/ha Anchor.
I have found variability is mainly due to water quality and where people use other conditioners it may be conditioning out some of the constituents of Breakthru.
Once you like many others are convinced then post em I reduce the rate to 70-75% successfully.
That gives you a total price of £13.70/ha £5.50/acre down to £10.13 or £4.10/acre.
Persistence depends on a lot of factors re weather but in a worst scenario 2 years ago where Osr and Ww needed to be resown after pellet use the only slug damage was on the Ww in late Nov with very immature slugs feathering the edges of the new growth, not enough damage at that time to reapply.
See 335 new user that posted after you.
Email me at [email protected] for more details of product and uses

 

[Feldspar]

Spoke too soon. Now having to apply a dose of pellets on all second wheats (mainly for snails in one block) and on wheat behind beans. Already applied 2 kg/ha with the drill.

 

[Hammer]

Spoke too soon. Now having to apply a dose of pellets on all second wheats (mainly for snails in one block) and on wheat behind beans. Already applied 2 kg/ha with the drill.

I have a field of wheat after Winter beans which has disappeared despite 2 applications, one at drilling and another a week later. A lot of shoots taken off below surface and I struggle to find many slugs but lots of those tiny snails... Now way too wet to attempt any re-drilling.

 

[Feldspar]

I have a field of wheat after Winter beans which has disappeared despite 2 applications, one at drilling and another a week later. A lot of shoots taken off below surface and I struggle to find many slugs but lots of those tiny snails... Now way too wet to attempt any re-drilling.

Sounds like you've had a lot more rain than us. Our slug / snail problems are at the moment not too bad, but I'm not taking any chances. Does worry me though that with the very good conditions that we've had that we're applying pellets.

 

[Hammer]

Sounds like you've had a lot more rain than us. Our slug / snail problems are at the moment not too bad, but I'm not taking any chances. Does worry me though that with the very good conditions that we've had that we're applying pellets.

Yes we've had unexpected and un-forecast showers most days over the last couple of weeks. But until then it had been exceptionally dry since mid July, which led to my complacency with not pre-baiting bean stubbles as is my normal practice since using a Claydon for 5 years now, and assuming 5kg at drilling would suffice. In a wet autumn I find it nigh on impossible to control slugs, I don't know what I am doing wrong. And before someone says it's all the insecticides I use - I haven't sprayed one in wheat for 4 years, and only in rape the first time this autumn where areas were being lost to flea beetle. Maybe I could concede it could be my yellow drill though...

 

[Feldspar]

Yes we've had unexpected and un-forecast showers most days over the last couple of weeks. But until then it had been exceptionally dry since mid July, which led to my complacency with not pre-baiting bean stubbles as is my normal practice since using a Claydon for 5 years now, and assuming 5kg at drilling would suffice. In a wet autumn I find it nigh on impossible to control slugs, I don't know what I am doing wrong. And before someone says it's all the insecticides I use - I haven't sprayed one in wheat for 4 years, and only in rape the first time this autumn where areas were being lost to flea beetle. Maybe I could concede it could be my yellow drill though...

Have just been out to check out wheat after OSR. Terrarstarred twice and then rolled. Pre-pelleted and pellets with the drill. Drilled in perfect conditions. Now being grazed hard. Ridiculous. I'm annoyed now.

 

[Louis Mc]

Have just been out to check out wheat after OSR. Terrarstarred twice and then rolled. Pre-pelleted and pellets with the drill. Drilled in perfect conditions. Now being grazed hard. Ridiculous. I'm annoyed now.

I would have put your drilled pellets on top a few days after drilling

 

[Dan Powell]

Have just been out to check out wheat after OSR. Terrarstarred twice and then rolled. Pre-pelleted and pellets with the drill. Drilled in perfect conditions. Now being grazed hard. Ridiculous. I'm annoyed now.

How long was the ground bare of vegetation before drilling? Any cracks or clods or surface trash remaining after the terrastar?

I think you either need a period of bare consolidated soil (slugs starve) or you need to drill on the green where there is sufficient greenery to sustain the slugs until the emerged wheat is safe. Anything inbetween seems to get hammered.

 

[Feldspar]

How long was the ground bare of vegetation before drilling? Any cracks or clods or surface trash remaining after the terrastar?

I think you either need a period of bare consolidated soil (slugs starve) or you need to drill on the green where there is sufficient greenery to sustain the slugs until the emerged wheat is safe. Anything inbetween seems to get hammered.

It was bare most of the way through the summer. It never really greened up. Made sure to space the Terrastar with a decent spacing between the two to try and catch any laid eggs. Rolled before and after drilling. Seed had Deter as well which certainly hasn't avoided a problem. Have been charging around in the wind trying to firefight. Really quite concerned that there is this much of a problem in what have been such benign conditions. Couldn't have asked for much better. Lighter land portions of this block are OK, but the heavier land is not great.