Slugs (again)

[E_B]

Yes we've had unexpected and un-forecast showers most days over the last couple of weeks. But until then it had been exceptionally dry since mid July, which led to my complacency with not pre-baiting bean stubbles as is my normal practice since using a Claydon for 5 years now, and assuming 5kg at drilling would suffice. In a wet autumn I find it nigh on impossible to control slugs, I don't know what I am doing wrong. And before someone says it's all the insecticides I use - I haven't sprayed one in wheat for 4 years, and only in rape the first time this autumn where areas were being lost to flea beetle. Maybe I could concede it could be my yellow drill though...

I'm not sure whether it makes a huge difference or not when there is heavy land and lots of residue involved, but one of the theoretical reasons we liked the Mzuri was for the extra consolidation, especially the rear press wheels with adjustable hydraulic pressure. There is always the threat of awkward punctures and bearings going but as it's doing a fair bit of work at the front, it's also putting it back down well again afterwards. Perhaps doesn't make any difference in practice, but if you believe the marketing...

http://mzuri.eu/slugs-favour-direct-drilled-soils/

Conversely this would probably be a negative in wet conditions, as I sure James has experience of.

Perhaps your wheat is a victim of such a successful bean crop prior; so much residue on top. In the event of our beans on heavy land this year being a success, I have drilled them at about 70 degrees to the tramlines (albeit with a big old curve on them accidently)

I made myself a lot of short work drilling but our combine doesn't spread the mulch very far so after combining them next Summer I can whizz along in the Fastrac in the same direction as the tramlines (so longways) with the old Dunham Lehr



and try and spread the residue out from the 'swath' and further across the header width. If you get me. But then your combine appears to have a good chopper spread on it so perhaps a non-issue. I don't think from my limited knowledge you've done anything wrong at all given the conditions this year, but in hindsight I am glad we pre-baited our bean stubble, and going forward I'm going to try to insist on any stubble with residue getting baited before drilling, so in our case that'll be grass and beans. Oat straw removed obviously.

It was bare most of the way through the summer. It never really greened up. Made sure to space the Terrastar with a decent spacing between the two to try and catch any laid eggs. Rolled before and after drilling. Seed had Deter as well which certainly hasn't avoided a problem. Have been charging around in the wind trying to firefight. Really quite concerned that there is this much of a problem in what have been such benign conditions. Couldn't have asked for much better. Lighter land portions of this block are OK, but the heavier land is not great.

Uh oh... Try to keep calm...

 

[Hammer]

@E_B Yes, good point on the residue burden/legacy of a heavy crop. But we have lost another field now which was much thinner by harvest, although through much of last season it was probably a slug haven. I'm now off to get cold on the quad yet again... I like your classic Ultra Mulcher - I hope it can handle large amounts of bean straw!

 

[Dan Powell]

So having saved the new OSR crop with 3 doses of ferric phosphate and the wheat after rape with four doses I was feeling calm. Wheat after beans went in well and not a slug to be seen in one field and the other looking OK after a single dose.

Until today that is. Bloody grazing everywhere. Where do they come from? The wheat is very slow to emerge (hello Deter seed dressing cheers for that) which isn't helping.

I am honestly tearing what little hair I have left out.

At this rate there will be two no till drills for sale come spring because this is ridiculous. I know people say it gets easier but does it? Or do you just get used to failure...

I do not know what the answer is but if anyone has the piece of the jigsaw I haven't worked out yet please let me know.

 

[Devon James]

Since taking osr out of the rotation our slug burden has become dramatically less. A dry establishment has ment we haven't spread any again this autumn, except on the rape which is now back in. What do you do to the osr stubble before wheat?

 

[britt]

Sorry to hear so many of you struggling, I have been there.
Slugs strangely absent here.
5 Kg of a 1.5% Meta on wheat after the rape killed plenty of slugs but a few pellets left and not much grazing since.
The previous 3 crops were notilled but the ground was pigtailed raked and rolled after harvest to level some troughs and ridges which have appeared from previous cultivations. I would normally expect to use more pellets, so not sure if it's the notill or the fact that we have only had 6mm of rain in October.
A heavy patch after the beans which always suffers from slugs has only had 5 Kg of the above, and again no grazing. I would normally expect to do much more of this field.
Notill or dry weather ? I can't say.
The only real damage I have is a short run in the rape where I have driven too wide, that did get 7 Kg Meta pre-em then 5 Kg Ferrric 10 days later (drilled 22nd Aug). And a bit thin in the usual places. 4 previous crops notilled, no rape the past 5.

 

[E_B]

Got slugs shredding wheat on a field that we have never seen slugs on before. Wheat after oats, straw removed. Hopefully the crop is forward enough to not be significantly affected in the long term, especially if it turns cold soon.

 

[warksfarmer]

Be honest now, how many slug pellets are you using because I'm using bloody loads and still having crops decimated.

Does ferric phosphate actually do anything? Loads of little tiny slugs are the problem.

Being honest virtually none. In 2011 we bought a tonne of pellets. Today we have 200kg of that pallet left. The reason being is we ditched osr and have used very little since. Where we have used it's probably been more out of paranoia on fields quite a few miles from the yard that are only checked weekly.

 

[martian]

Huge flock of Fieldfares/Redwings on our cover crops and osr and also a fair mob of Starlings and quite a few Jackdaws and Rooks. Even with my x-ray eyes I couldn't see what they were eating, but according to Wikipedia they all eat slugs as part of there diet (and quite a few of them will eat slug pellets which don't do them much good) so I'm happy to let them get on with cleaning the place up.

We rather rashly bought a pallet of pellets this year and we've still got 3/4 of it left, at this rate it'll last some years...

 

[Terrier]

So this could be a part of the puzzle and another reason why slugs are more abundant in wheat after OSR, because the slug population revives faster than predators after both often been hit hard by pellets. Same with other beneficials that are hammered in OSR by constant insecticide sprays.

But plenty of insecticides used in spring beans and very little slug pressure after that. OSR gets a full ground cover in late autumn and for the next 8 months provides a damp,dark habitat for generation after generation of slugs to breed. That's the main reason.

 

[SilliamWhale]

Huge flock of Fieldfares/Redwings on our cover crops and osr and also a fair mob of Starlings and quite a few Jackdaws and Rooks. Even with my x-ray eyes I couldn't see what they were eating, but according to Wikipedia they all eat slugs as part of there diet (and quite a few of them will eat slug pellets which don't do them much good) so I'm happy to let them get on with cleaning the place up.

We rather rashly bought a pallet of pellets this year and we've still got 3/4 of it left, at this rate it'll last some years...

It will cost you a fortune to dispose of when metaldehyde gets banned.

 

[martian]

It will cost you a fortune to dispose of when metaldehyde gets banned.

Don't worry, it's the other stuff, Ferric phoshate (have I got that right this time @Feldspar ?) Can always use it as fertiliser...

 

[ollie989898]

Don't worry, it's the other stuff, Ferric phoshate (have I got that right this time @Feldspar ?) Can always use it as fertiliser...

Right up until they ban the use of EDTA in pesticide products...

 

[Feldspar]

Don't worry, it's the other stuff, Ferric phoshate (have I got that right this time @Feldspar ?) Can always use it as fertiliser...

Right, but as per @ollie989898's point, don't assume that it's friendlier than metaldehyde.

 

[shakerator]

Right up until they ban the use of EDTA in pesticide products...

EDTA is in many foods we eat! It's the iron combined with the EDTA which leads to iron toxicity ! Scandalous really that the toxicology studies are only based on iron phosphate without this "inert" adjuvant!

 

[colhonk]

Did anyone else try @Breakthru spray slug solution?Must admit I was very skeptical but did try it on one field, which the previous year the slugs ate a 2 acre patch to bare ground and around it,had lots of pellets on. this year it is the only field I have not put pellets on, just the spray solution, and there is very very little slug damage. Other people`s thoughts ?

 

[Feldspar]

Did anyone else try @Breakthru spray slug solution?Must admit I was very skeptical but did try it on one field, which the previous year the slugs ate a 2 acre patch to bare ground and around it,had lots of pellets on. this year it is the only field I have not put pellets on, just the spray solution, and there is very very little slug damage. Other people`s thoughts ?

I must admit I tried it and did everything as instructed. Went out to check slugs were active with torch. Put products in the right order and applied in the dark with a fine spray at the full rate. Looked immediately afterwards and slugs still seemed to be quite happy. Did a few control strips and then a few strips in other fields. Next day couldn't find any dead slugs. Subsequently no noticeable difference between treated and control areas. I know Bruce did mention that it might need extra for hard water, but I saw so little effect that I was not prepared to try again. May not be be what some people want to read, but I can only speak as I found.

 

[Louis Mc]

I must admit I tried it and did everything as instructed. Went out to check slugs were active with torch. Put products in the right order and applied in the dark with a fine spray at the full rate. Looked immediately afterwards and slugs still seemed to be quite happy. Did a few control strips and then a few strips in other fields. Next day couldn't find any dead slugs. Subsequently no noticeable difference between treated and control areas. I know Bruce did mention that it might need extra for hard water, but I saw so little effect that I was not prepared to try again. May not be be what some people want to read, but I can only speak as I found.

I had a similar experience, again only speaking from my experience. where we did control patches it didn't make much difference. Wheat looks fantastic now though but we did pellet twice.
I'd consider trying it again if others were claiming success

 

[Feldspar]

I had a similar experience, again only speaking from my experience. where we did control patches it didn't make much difference. Wheat looks fantastic now though but we did pellet twice.
I'd consider trying it again if others were claiming success

My expectation was that as the stuff hit the slugs that they would virtually fall off the plant and be found laying dead after going through with the sprayer. I did not find this at all. In fact, I couldn't find a single dead slug.

 

[Louis Mc]

My expectation was that as the stuff hit the slugs that they would virtually fall off the plant and be found laying dead after going through with the sprayer. I did not find this at all. In fact, I couldn't find a single dead slug.

Same, no less grazing noticeable in following weeks where it was used either

 

[SorenIlsoe]

We haven't grown rape for a couple of years, but letting the volunteers grow away until after we drilled the wheat always meant we could get away without any slug pellets on the wheat here. Wheat would grow whilst any slugs were chomping the dying rape and by the time they'd finished tidying that up, the wheat would be beyond damage.

Leaving volunteers to 4 leves counts as one more year growing OSR and increases risk of clubroot!
But maybe clubroot is less/no problem in notill because of higher microbe activity and then the disease will be reduced by competition?