Small-scale arable and sheep operation

[adam_farming]

I'm after some ideas and advice. We are about to take a small 60ac South Suffolk farm back in hand after it has been contracted out and rented for last few years. My wife and I work full time 5 days a week so the main objectives are a system that can be run on evenings and weekends but doesn't necessarily need to make much of a profit, at the very least it should break even without paying labour.
Between us we have good arable farming experience and some limited livestock experience. We both went to Harper, so draw your own conclusions about how "qualified" that makes us!

The farm is 60 acres of medium-heavy clay in 3 adjoining fields. Half of the land is in year 4 of grass that has been rented to a hay grower for those 4 years. Before that it was continuous wheat for a while. Overall it's in good order as it's only seen a tractor in the summer months for the last few years and it seems a waste to plough it up.

The other half has been either wheat or fallow for ages and is now half wheat half fallow (3-crop rule and CS legacy). Not in terrible order but is the standard sort of difficult heavy land that grows good wheat but hard to work.

We want to integrate some sheep into the system for a few reasons; 60ac of just arable would be a bit boring and only really interest me, and some livestock might help to liven up the ground a bit, as it hasn't had any organic matter added apart from chopped straw for a while. Cattle are a bit beyond us (no housing) and I'm worried they would make a mess in winter.

We don’t want to do any lambing; we don’t have the time and not really any knowledge or facilities. I’m trying to come up with a system where the winter grazing is on the arable half on something like kale or turnips or a cover crop or whatever before a spring crop, probably barley. Then in summer they go across to the grass half and graze that, hopefully with some left to make hay from (plenty of horse demand round here). None of it apart from the paddocks is fenced but I’m guessing electric will be adequate initially. Eventually the idea would be to properly fence both halves around the perimeter and then use electric to subdivide but that wouldn’t be for a couple of years.

We have a small loader tractor and a 35X.

Is such a system viable and how would you go about developing it? How many sheep roughly would such a system support? Any ideas on breeds to look for?

TIA

 

[dinderleat]

Put the whole lot into a mid teir scheme with herbal leys arable reversion and stock fence the fields plus any capital items you can get. Either buy store lambs or ewes and lambs depending on time of year. Just keep things turning over. Probably fatten maybe 3-4 lots of lambs a year. You could rotate 20acres of wheat with a stubble to stubble contract(put out on tender) then plant a winter forage rye and rape to fatten lambs then back to herbal ley following spring

 

[spin cycle]

Put the whole lot into a mid teir scheme with herbal leys arable reversion and stock fence the fields plus any capital items you can get. Either buy store lambs or ewes and lambs depending on time of year. Just keep things turning over. Probably fatten maybe 3-4 lots of lambs a year. You could rotate 20acres of wheat with a stubble to stubble contract(put out on tender) then plant a winter forage rye and rape to fatten lambs then back to herbal ley following spring

thats a decent plan

TBH as a reader of my diary i must say i'm a bit disappointed you don't want to lamb ewes ....seriously though building your own flock would be the most rewarding part

 

[dinderleat]

thats a decent plan

TBH as a reader of my diary i must say i'm a bit disappointed you don't want to lamb ewes ....seriously though building your own flock would be the most rewarding part

No cost to much if you want to lamb ewes buy inlamb full mouths fatten the ewes and lambs then sell the lot normally pick in lambs ewes up for £90 ish wether you will this year

 

[Agrivator]

Buy ewe-lambs and sell as Gimmer Shearlings.

Texel or Suffolk crosses would be ideal, because you shouldn't need to dress them before sale, and they are among the most popular (and respectable) breeding sheep.

You could prepare things to buy your first batch this coming Autumn.

 

[dinderleat]

Buy ewe-lambs and sell as Gimmer Shearlings.

Texel or Suffolk crosses would be ideal, because you shouldn't need to dress them before sale, and they are among the most popular (and respectable) breeding sheep.

You could prepare things to buy your first batch this coming Autumn.

Buy ewes lambs for £80 keep for a year and sell for £120

 

[Anymulewilldo]

Buy ewes lambs for £80 keep for a year and sell for £120

But be open too the idea of killing them in the spring at £110!!

 

[dinderleat]

 

[adam_farming]

Put the whole lot into a mid teir scheme with herbal leys arable reversion and stock fence the fields plus any capital items you can get. Either buy store lambs or ewes and lambs depending on time of year. Just keep things turning over. Probably fatten maybe 3-4 lots of lambs a year. You could rotate 20acres of wheat with a stubble to stubble contract(put out on tender) then plant a winter forage rye and rape to fatten lambs then back to herbal ley following spring

Thanks for the ideas
This is an interesting one as the ending of the current CS mid tier scheme ties in with us getting started. It would be good if the new scheme could help us in some way by providing some of the grazing crops and fencing too.
Would a GS4 be suitable?
https://www.gov.uk/countryside-stewardship-grants/legume-and-herb-rich-swards-gs4
It looks good on paper, £309/ha but is it actually what sheep want to eat? Would this fill the herbal ley part of your suggestion? In time this could rotate into what is currently grass as although I'd like to keep it in some way it will get tired.

 

[adam_farming]

thats a decent plan

TBH as a reader of my diary i must say i'm a bit disappointed you don't want to lamb ewes ....seriously though building your own flock would be the most rewarding part

It is the diary that has in some ways inspired me but also worried me I think maybe in time we might be capable and confident enough to do some lambing but at the moment it's not something either of us has the experience (or time frankly) to do properly. I'd hate for an animal to suffer at our hands for that reason. We also don't really have any suitable buildings, I've heard of poly tunnels being used as a sort of temporary shelter, is this a viable option for if we got that far?

 

[adam_farming]

Buy ewe-lambs and sell as Gimmer Shearlings.

Texel or Suffolk crosses would be ideal, because you shouldn't need to dress them before sale, and they are among the most popular (and respectable) breeding sheep.

You could prepare things to buy your first batch this coming Autumn.

This is I think what suits us at least to begin with, sort of looking after them really before handing on to someone more qualified! I think that would help us learn the basics of running sheep. Would we be able to keep them on grass for that whole period or would the need or benefit from something from the arable rotation like a winter brassica? How long would they be with us in that scenario?
We don't have any transport at the moment but I'm open to the idea of a basic pickup and a small stock trailer. Is the done thing usually to go and collect/deliver or are hauliers fairly available? (we're in Suffolk)

 

[delilah]

My wife and I work full time 5 days a week

Home based or commuting ? If the latter then any livestock will have to be owned by someone else, you really don't need the grief.

 

[Farmer1001]

Thanks for the ideas
This is an interesting one as the ending of the current CS mid tier scheme ties in with us getting started. It would be good if the new scheme could help us in some way by providing some of the grazing crops and fencing too.
Would a GS4 be suitable?
https://www.gov.uk/countryside-stewardship-grants/legume-and-herb-rich-swards-gs4
It looks good on paper, £309/ha but is it actually what sheep want to eat? Would this fill the herbal ley part of your suggestion? In time this could rotate into what is currently grass as although I'd like to keep it in some way it will get tired.

Im with @dinderleat on this, we had the balance of our farm offered a MT agreement on Monday and will sign the acceptance form today. With you both working FT this is a no brainer. You do have scope within the seed mixes so get with a seed provider who can spec it correctly to suit your soils and your needs, too many go with a "standard mix" and spend 5 years trying to make it work as well as it could. In 5 years you will have the asset improved with all the farm fenced, new gates and troughs on concrete standings and the soil in good health, look at hedges and trees grants and indulge yourself if thats yourself if thats your thing. Good luck.

 

[dinderleat]

Im with @dinderleat on this, we had the balance of our farm offered a MT agreement on Monday and will sign the acceptance form today. With you both working FT this is a no brainer. You do have scope within the seed mixes so get with a seed provider who can spec it correctly to suit your soils and your needs, too many go with a "standard mix" and spend 5 years trying to make it work as well as it could. In 5 years you will have the asset improved with all the farm fenced, new gates and troughs on concrete standings and the soil in good health, look at hedges and trees grants and indulge yourself if thats yourself if thats your thing. Good luck.

We’ve just down our mid teir agreement with various field options and capital works it should be a worth while venture hopefully fence 10k, 600m of cow tracks and a 100ft by 150ft shed to cover silage pits about 160k, so worth while doing plus a 5k a year payment.

 

[Farmer1001]

We’ve just down our mid teir agreement with various field options and capital works it should be a worth while venture hopefully fence 10k, 600m of cow tracks and a 100ft by 150ft shed to cover silage pits about 160k, so worth while doing plus a 5k a year payment.

Absolutely, mind you many cant be bothered!

 

[dinderleat]

Absolutely, mind you many cant be bothered!

I don’t think people actually believe you can get it. The trouble is if you don’t cover pits and adequate cow tracks I’m sure we will be made to do it at our cost.

 

[adam_farming]

Home based or commuting ? If the latter then any livestock will have to be owned by someone else, you really don't need the grief.

I'm in an office 9mi away, my wife home working from the farm, with her mother also on the farm. I see what you're saying but I think if we design the right system we will be able to keep our own. Between my wife and MIL they've kept ponies for a long time and fitted in their various demands around work so it's not an entirely new thing. Hence why I said we can't really do any lambing at this point anyway. But perhaps using someone else as a grazier could be part of the solution

 

[adam_farming]

Im with @dinderleat on this, we had the balance of our farm offered a MT agreement on Monday and will sign the acceptance form today. With you both working FT this is a no brainer. You do have scope within the seed mixes so get with a seed provider who can spec it correctly to suit your soils and your needs, too many go with a "standard mix" and spend 5 years trying to make it work as well as it could. In 5 years you will have the asset improved with all the farm fenced, new gates and troughs on concrete standings and the soil in good health, look at hedges and trees grants and indulge yourself if thats yourself if thats your thing. Good luck.

I'm completely on board with putting the work in to an MT scheme to work with the system and get the maximum potential that is available if you see what I mean, rather than trying to do what has always been done and making a scheme fit that. We're in an area of multi-thousand acre arable units and we'll never produce a tonne of feed wheat as cheaply as they will but what we can do is attention to detail and some of the fiddly things that might be required to get a load of scheme benefits.
Thanks for the advice, it's much appreciated

 

[7610 super q]

Kiss. If you're livestock minded, all grass, and keep livestock. If you want to be arable, crop all 60 acres with the same crop per year, different crop every year to get a rotation ( I assume the daft 3 crop rule has been binned in England like it has in Wales ? ) Cheap 1980's gear, or contractors for the main operations.
Not sure about the schemes mentioned above. I'd avoid them like the plague myself, but that's just me.

 

[adam_farming]

Kiss. If you're livestock minded, all grass, and keep livestock. If you want to be arable, crop all 60 acres with the same crop per year, different crop every year to get a rotation ( I assume the daft 3 crop rule has been binned in England like it has in Wales ? ) Cheap 1980's gear, or contractors for the main operations.
Not sure about the schemes mentioned above. I'd avoid them like the plague myself, but that's just me.

KISS is definitely where I'm aiming, and cheap simple equipment is part of it. However all eggs in one basket (hmm maybe chickens is a good idea?!) does seem a little risky, hence the idea of some arable, some in scheme, some livestock. Partly just to keep it interesting, and I think the farm is suffering from a lack of diversity. For me personally, I'm happy to jump through hoops to get the money, if it means a guaranteed fixed income, but I get that it isn't for everyone. I do get your point though.