Smaller farmers should receive greater subsidy per ha than larger farmers - discuss.

The quote was straight out the scottish farmers so perhaps you know better LOLOL

Perhaps I do. No doubt I will be accused again of being smug for saying that.

You may know I farmed in Australia. I still maintain an interest in what happens there. I follow the MLA (Meat and Livestock Australia) information, and Australia exports a certain amount of sheep meat. I will let you do your own research. A lot of that is live exports of culls to the Middle East. Its lamb exports, not huge given that there are about 70 million sheep in Australia, go to countries much closer to home than the EU. A relatively small tonnage is exported to the EU, but again, you find the figures if you want to know them.

I suppose you do know that the vast majority of sheep in Australia are Merinos?
 
I was reading about it in the scottish farmer, 56% of Australian lamb is exported they are currently limited on how much they can send to the EU and have a strong desire to send more, the danger now we are out of the EU we will be the ones they will aim this at
 
I was reading about it in the scottish farmer, 56% of Australian lamb is exported they are currently limited on how much they can send to the EU and have a strong desire to send more, the danger now we are out of the EU we will be the ones they will aim this at

Do you know how many tonnes is 56%? Do you know where it went? Do you know what the Australian home consumption is? Assuming the UK begged Australia for lamb, do you know the maximum amount they could export to us, and at what cost?

I think the answer to all questions would be NO. You could easily find out though if you want to. You will then realise that Australia is not a "sheep meat superpower". Your friendly SF reporter would also have found that out if he/she had done their homework - a thing reporters rarely seem to do. Australia most definitely is the world's supreme supplier of fine wool. Knowing the propensity of UK citizens for woolly jumpers they would jump at the chance to send the finest Merino wools to the UK. Nothing for farmers to fear from that though, is there? Some even keep sheep that shed their wool, because it is not worth shearing! Oh, yes it is. Provided the wool is properly handled from before shearing to after it is sold. BTW, I did qualify as a wool classer fro the Australian Wool Board when I lived so know a little about it. Smugness again!!

How much UK lamb is exported? How much is produced each year? How much is consumed at home? Again, you could find out if you want to.
 

joe soapy

Member
Location
devon
I get my share of free sub money. Easy life. I don't know many tax payers who get a free £3k just for existing, never mind £70k. I would much rather have £70k and don't blame Bossfarmer for wanting his dole trip to continue. Who wouldn't?

Actually £70k is pretty small beer to some of the people outside of AG. there has been many documented cases of unemployed families getting that sort of cash. Then there are the various
huge startup subsidies handed out circa £1million per job place. Health care and drugs for
some individuals regularly top £70k. Rail transport cannot operate as it does without vast subsidies.
Education and local council services both recieve large payments from the public purse.
Actual food production subs are dwarfed by the amount of return on assets forgone by a majority
of farmers or the unpaid labour they provide in many cases.
The list is almost endless when you start digging into who gets what
 

caveman

Member
Location
East Sussex.
I personally think the subsidy should be tied into production,output. The more you produce the more you get. And should be worked out differently for organic farms as they produce quality but less quantity. Or give the farmers a fairer price.

Why?
If something is in short supply going forward......There will be a pemium to produce it.
If something is over supplied.......just let the willy wavers get on with it.
The only way to produce staple products at a fixed price to the consumer, which would be less than the cost of production and therefore need subsidising, would require them to be linked to quotas and such products would have to be moved further into the chain in front of imported product.
But that would be too easy to set up.
Boom and bust is the order of the day.
 

Henarar

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Somerset
Farming is a dying business, revive it or lose it. The average age of a farmer in the UK, 59. Compare that with other businesses.
we keep hearing that but I am not sure its quite right
that may be the ave age of farmer but that don't mean its the ave age of those effectively running the farm business
And what of it anyway who is to say how old a farmer should be ?
 

Tropical

Member
Location
Carmarthenshire
we keep hearing that but I am not sure its quite right
that may be the ave age of farmer but that don't mean its the ave age of those effectively running the farm business
And what of it anyway who is to say how old a farmer should be ?

There is no problem with old farmer or a farmer being old, The problem lies in there are not enough people in farming, the young are not going into it, everyone want to go to the city and see the lights lol. Once the knowledge and experience is gone or lost, it ain't easy to get it back or start again. How many today have the knowledge or know how when to plant seeds or grow food, and I don't mean for yourself. Farming on a higher level is different to growing your own food.
 

Tropical

Member
Location
Carmarthenshire
Why?
If something is in short supply going forward......There will be a pemium to produce it.
If something is over supplied.......just let the willy wavers get on with it.
The only way to produce staple products at a fixed price to the consumer, which would be less than the cost of production and therefore need subsidising, would require them to be linked to quotas and such products would have to be moved further into the chain in front of imported product.
But that would be too easy to set up.
Boom and bust is the order of the day.
Yeah supply and demand, agreed
 
Do you know how many tonnes is 56%? Do you know where it went? Do you know what the Australian home consumption is? Assuming the UK begged Australia for lamb, do you know the maximum amount they could export to us, and at what cost?

I think the answer to all questions would be NO. You could easily find out though if you want to. You will then realise that Australia is not a "sheep meat superpower". Your friendly SF reporter would also have found that out if he/she had done their homework - a thing reporters rarely seem to do. Australia most definitely is the world's supreme supplier of fine wool. Knowing the propensity of UK citizens for woolly jumpers they would jump at the chance to send the finest Merino wools to the UK. Nothing for farmers to fear from that though, is there? Some even keep sheep that shed their wool, because it is not worth shearing! Oh, yes it is. Provided the wool is properly handled from before shearing to after it is sold. BTW, I did qualify as a wool classer fro the Australian Wool Board when I lived so know a little about it. Smugness again!!

How much UK lamb is exported? How much is produced each year? How much is consumed at home? Again, you could find out if you want to.
It tells you all of these statistics in the article the UK exports 36% of its lamb to the EU
 
I personally think the subsidy should be tied into production,output. The more you produce the more you get. And should be worked out differently for organic farms as they produce quality but less quantity. Or give the farmers a fairer price.
Its only an urban myth that "organic" produces quality food, at best its only a marketing tool for those who think its better and can afford to pay a premium because of said percection, at worst is just a con job.
 

joe soapy

Member
Location
devon
There is no problem with old farmer or a farmer being old, The problem lies in there are not enough people in farming, the young are not going into it, everyone want to go to the city and see the lights lol. Once the knowledge and experience is gone or lost, it ain't easy to get it back or start again. How many today have the knowledge or know how when to plant seeds or grow food, and I don't mean for yourself. Farming on a higher level is different to growing your own food.

actually knowing when and what to plant in order to feed yourself year round is one of the
most valuable skills that is being lost. Growing food on an industrial scale is relatively
easy compared to that
 

Tropical

Member
Location
Carmarthenshire
actually knowing when and what to plant in order to feed yourself year round is one of the
most valuable skills that is being lost. Growing food on an industrial scale is relatively
easy compared to that
I still do think growing commercially on a large scale is different, because it is easy to manage small areas for yourself, but hundreds of acres totally different. Maybe I am wrong, but my experience in running small farms and large were totally different, even working managing a huge branch to a small one was different,

But I do agree
knowing when and what to plant in order to feed yourself year round is one of the
most valuable skills that is being lost. (y)

What you mean chickens don't grow in Tesco?:scratchhead:
 
It tells you all of these statistics in the article the UK exports 36% of its lamb to the EU

If the reporter did have all those statistics then he/she should have known that Australia is most definitely not a "sheep meat superpower" that can ruin the UK lamb producers.

This is what you posted:-
theres a serious threat looming over our sheep industry at the moment,

There is very little of Australia (comparatively speaking) suitable for fat lamb production. It is highly improbable that production could be increased to a level that would necessitate sending large quantities to the UK. In 2014 there was a little over 14,000 tonnes sent to the whole of the EU. Australia's markets are much closer to home and demand is increasing from these customers.
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 77 43.5%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 62 35.0%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 28 15.8%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.7%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.7%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 4 2.3%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

  • 1,286
  • 1
As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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