- Location
- South Wales UK
TFF members form an orderly queue with your land.
Last edited:
Smallholding advice.
- Thread starter WelshSmallholder1404
- Start date
- Location
- sw scotland
I came into farming from another career and continued to work full time to get rid of debt as we expanded. After 20 years we are on a reasonable scale but starting up you need to budget on your day job for several years. It is quite easy to make a loss on a small livestock farm with machinery. In fact, most find it hard to make a profit.
Don't be embarrassed if you need to use other earnings to prop it up for a while. Better than paying bank interest. Regard it as a hobby like others may buy a yacht or take out expensive golf memberships if that is what you want to do. It will make you almost no money but you could still enjoy it.
Don't be embarrassed if you need to use other earnings to prop it up for a while. Better than paying bank interest. Regard it as a hobby like others may buy a yacht or take out expensive golf memberships if that is what you want to do. It will make you almost no money but you could still enjoy it.
- Location
- Aberdeenshire
Keeping my 20 acres of grass and 40 acres of trees, pond and hedges has undoubtedly cost me money, time, nice cars, foreign holidays but I have never in 15 years of sun, thigh high snow, minus 24 or pelting sideways rain regretted what my wife and I chose to do and have never felt the soul darkening dread of going out to a job I did for money rather than passion. The flip side to the financial costs is that my investments in buildings and making an attractive island in a sea of arable and pasture means one day my son will have an asset to sell for a decent amount judging by the number of unsolicited offers we have had for our place.
Things I consider have helped;
we are not an animal sanctuary peopled by weave your own trouser types,
we keep a commercially viable breed of sheep and are not seen by our peers as nutters with camelids and hairy goats,
we befriended our neighbours and help them as needed and they help us but we don't keep scores,
we don't complain about noise, smells, growth of industry around us, in fact we are pleased for our neighbours when they are doing well enough to expand,
we accept the countryside was doing its thing before we arrived and do not seek to change anything about how anyone around us behaves,
we accept life and death around us, that is inescapable.
We keep our boundary fences secure and don't have wandering livestock.
It's simple really don't try to be nice, BE nice to those around you and pretty soon you become integrated and a part of the community and after that there are very few problems that the collective mind can't fix.
Things I consider have helped;
we are not an animal sanctuary peopled by weave your own trouser types,
we keep a commercially viable breed of sheep and are not seen by our peers as nutters with camelids and hairy goats,
we befriended our neighbours and help them as needed and they help us but we don't keep scores,
we don't complain about noise, smells, growth of industry around us, in fact we are pleased for our neighbours when they are doing well enough to expand,
we accept the countryside was doing its thing before we arrived and do not seek to change anything about how anyone around us behaves,
we accept life and death around us, that is inescapable.
We keep our boundary fences secure and don't have wandering livestock.
It's simple really don't try to be nice, BE nice to those around you and pretty soon you become integrated and a part of the community and after that there are very few problems that the collective mind can't fix.
Exactly, people think farm, got to get a tractor!
Iv got over 300 acres and don't have any machinery, not spending £10k for a 30 year old piece of junk will got a long way to pay for a contractor to come a couple of times a year.
- Location
- Aberdeenshire
A small (but relatively heavy Zetor) 75hp tractor with loader (Dirty Mary) lets me grade my road, deal with big bales that are more cost effective in time and money than interminable amounts of small bales, offload deliveries of feed without bothering my neighbours and comes in a tonne tote rather than forty bl00dy bags, allows me to help my neighbours turn their hay and I can turn mine, I can cut my hay with a 9' mower when I want, powers my log splitter, clears snow from my drive, and does a multitude of lifting and carrying jobs every year. I regularly lend it to neighbours with my Wrag post chapper or my tine harrows buying me some grace in the Karma bank. With skids on my mower I top my fields any time I like (no seeding, senile, less nutritious grass on my place) and so do my small scale friends with their fewer acres.
I'd rather sell my Gator than Dirty Mary.
I bought the post chapper when the labour and materials mark up bill for fencing my place when I moved in would pay for me to buy one. So I did the work myself and still have an asset.
I buy reliable, no fuss equipment and look after it. The tractor I bought 6 years ago is still worth what I paid for it, the post chapper is still probably worth 80% of its purchase price and paid for itself anyway, the drill I bought 14 years ago at what seemed like an extortionate price has just given up the ghost after tens of thousands of screws and many post hangings. My expensive Krone mower has done all I need and many acres for friends for ten years with nothing more than a oil changes and some blades.
Going to work for others who have crap or no equipment is an utter 8all ache. Needing something yourself at 3am when disaster strikes and you just get on with it is worth its weight in gold for the contentment it brings and the piece of mind. I've been to farms that had no decent socket set, no angle grinder, no fencing pliers, no air compressor and they are, each and every one of them miserable places to work.
Owning equipment and maintaining it made me better able to fix stuff without relying on mechanics at rates 4 times what I was earning and made me asset to folk I worked for.
Being able and willing to help, contributing to the ease with which my neighbours operate has paid dividends in the quality and number of friends we have amassed in 15 years. Since covid came right along with my cancer diagnosis my wife and I have wanted for nothing, no livestock activity has not been performed exactly when I'd like it, my lambing shed was a hub for friends to come and blether and yes, assist. Being in a position to give aid has been rewarded ten fold.
Could I have saved money having no kit, maybe but it is debatable. Would I be where I'm at today with my utter contentment with my lot, nah, I don't think so.
I'd rather sell my Gator than Dirty Mary.
I bought the post chapper when the labour and materials mark up bill for fencing my place when I moved in would pay for me to buy one. So I did the work myself and still have an asset.
I buy reliable, no fuss equipment and look after it. The tractor I bought 6 years ago is still worth what I paid for it, the post chapper is still probably worth 80% of its purchase price and paid for itself anyway, the drill I bought 14 years ago at what seemed like an extortionate price has just given up the ghost after tens of thousands of screws and many post hangings. My expensive Krone mower has done all I need and many acres for friends for ten years with nothing more than a oil changes and some blades.
Going to work for others who have crap or no equipment is an utter 8all ache. Needing something yourself at 3am when disaster strikes and you just get on with it is worth its weight in gold for the contentment it brings and the piece of mind. I've been to farms that had no decent socket set, no angle grinder, no fencing pliers, no air compressor and they are, each and every one of them miserable places to work.
Owning equipment and maintaining it made me better able to fix stuff without relying on mechanics at rates 4 times what I was earning and made me asset to folk I worked for.
Being able and willing to help, contributing to the ease with which my neighbours operate has paid dividends in the quality and number of friends we have amassed in 15 years. Since covid came right along with my cancer diagnosis my wife and I have wanted for nothing, no livestock activity has not been performed exactly when I'd like it, my lambing shed was a hub for friends to come and blether and yes, assist. Being in a position to give aid has been rewarded ten fold.
Could I have saved money having no kit, maybe but it is debatable. Would I be where I'm at today with my utter contentment with my lot, nah, I don't think so.
oldoaktree
Member
- Location
- County Durham
You can borrow money to buy land , not sure who told you that it’s not possible to do this .
oldoaktree
Member
- Location
- County Durham
On a different thread you asked for advice on buying a tractor for 20k so if that’s your budget my advice would be buy an older tractor some thing like international 674- 785- 885 for around 5-6k and use the rest for a telehandler which you will use every day . I have a small spot now and I used the tractor occasionally but the telehandler virtually every day . From bashing in fence post to unloading wagons cleaning the yard stacking big and small bales. Generally any thing you want to move you can do with a telehandler. I bought an older manitou when I 1st moved here then when we wound up our large farming operations the JCB came here . I sold the manitou to an near neighbour he was a bit dubious about it at 1st but he now says he’s no idea how he managed before with out it .
toquark
Member
Maybe not a residential mortgage but an Agri or commercial loan will be fine. You will need a bigger security/deposit though and the interest rate will be higher. We got a residential mortgage for a house, steading and 20acres easily enough. Speak to Ben Wall at wall2wall finance, he was excellent in securing our loan he works across the UK.
while the house and yard are important the actual land and location should be your priority, a poor house can be knocked down and rebuilt, same for a yard but where it is will never change.
I would go Massy Ferguson 3000 series tractor they are solid and cheap to repair, they are knocking on in age but they where a mechanics tractor, so easy to work on, and after market parts are easy to get.
the tick is, buying a tidy one, and then fitting a new loader to it. I run a 3060 (80hp) with a Quicke loader it has 7k hrs but never misses a beat. 4 wheel drive is a must with loader tractors.
while a new tractor is tempting, they come with large repair bills as they are far more complex.
Other machinery,
Ok haymaking go for Kuhn drum mowers the old PZ based range they are cheap to own cheap to run and parts are everywhere. For a Turner go haybob again cheap and rugged, for a baler go round bale, that’s is the lowest pressure for storage type of bale on the market, as in you can leave them in the field if needs be.
Trailers etc they are always a good investment, just keep it simple.
sheds while not super important, in all setups do make some jobs nicer.
I like others would suggest you buy a farm as big as possible in one go expanding is never easy, land in a ring fence (ie you don’t have to go on the road) with the farm yard is always nicer. These tend to be only purchased when you get the farm as a whole adding land is always tricky as you can only buy land adjacent when it’s for sale. Land a mile down the road is never as handily as a block next to the yard.
from your goals you sound like the lifestyle is the goal so good luck, you will not make a tonne of money but that’s not your driving motivation.
This is not a recommendation for this tractor but they will do 10,000 hrs no trouble. And this low hrs one will last you for a long time.
https://www.agriaffaires.co.uk/used/farm-tractor/39647648/massey-ferguson-3060.html
- Location
- Ceredigion
You cant wish ones contentment on someone else , they may hate your version off contentment and that don't make theirs or yours wrong, there are as many who have come to this part of Wales and hated it ,gone back a lot, as those that have loved it and stayed
Great to hear, I posted on a smallholding fb page a while ago asking about mortgages on farms and someone said it was not possible to get one on land. On reading further comments, I think they did specify that it was not possible on normal residential loans and it would need to be commercial/ agri loan or something but I forgot about that. Delighted to hear it is possible though, thanks very much!
We wouldn't be coming to that part of Wales, we are from Ceredigion so it won't be new to us at all.
Taken your point on board. Will look into a handler and another tractor at some point. Thinking of renting out a few 'holiday pods' somewhere on the farm so maybe we can afford a handler too haha
- Location
- South Wales UK
Banks will lend on anything as long as they get their interest and money.
Yeah well I think I'll probably work a few days a week as a doctor for the first 5 years or so just to get us on our feet so hopefully, with a large deposit and my salary still coming in they'll be happy to lend. Can use my day job as a crutch until things are up and running.
But really who knows how it will plan out of course, just rough ideas and all that...
- Location
- Aberdeenshire
Don't forget there may be grants for rural diversification along with help with planning for pods and such like.
oldoaktree
Member
- Location
- County Durham
Try to work as long as possible. Applying for a loan would be much easier if you were in full time employment with a good employer and contract . Once you get your loan and as long as you feel you can afford to keep up with the repayments you can do want you want but best not to tell your lender this .
- Location
- Ceredigion
I was a generalisation. Most who buy small holdings around here come from England
sherg
Member
- Location
- shropshire
You've obviously worked hard to get where you are in life, I'd spend money on the right place, get the fences and buildings as good as possible, go to livestock markets and see what kind of sheep or cattle you want to keep and want to be seen selling and then if you can afford a new tractor and it makes you happy then do it, it's your money if your doing this as a hobby and somewhere to unwind then make it as enjoyable as possible struggling to keep stock in or paddling in sh!t whilst fixing a knackered 50 year old tractor might be some people's idea of fun it wouldn't be mine
Old Boar
Member
- Location
- West Wales
Having moved to Ceredigion 46 years ago wanting to farm, I am slighty ahead of you. I bought this place at auction, the house condemned but the land looked good (two years of drought would do that!). Here are some ideas that you may find useful:-
Look at the land first, as others have said. Dont go small - you can always find a use for land, or your neighbours will. The house and buildings can be fixed. If the house needs attention, make sure there is sufficient flat room around it to expand, and flat space to put up useful buildings. The old stone buildings are lovely until you have to muck out with a wheelbarrow that does not fit through the door. These buildings will fill with "stuff" so are useful in a way. Do not buy a house tucked into a hillside - they are always damp. Check old maps for springs and wells. Springs here have a nasty habit of appearing by the back door...
Make sure it is ring fenced - oh how I wish I had done this!
As most of the weather comes from the west, make sure you are protected on that side.
I had a day job (teaching) for years and managed the farm around that. I fully understand the attraction of peeling off "posh" work wear and putting on "farm" work wear and walking out to breath, to smell the grass growing, to stroke an animal, to walk out into the yard at night to see all the stars, and hear the sheep coughing....
Dont buy a place down a long lane - they are a nightmare to maintain, and you may not like the total isolation, especially in winter. Check for phone and internet signal - many "not spots" for both around still, which does not make life easy.
If you like a place in driving rain, chances are you will like it when the sun shines! Good luck!
Look at the land first, as others have said. Dont go small - you can always find a use for land, or your neighbours will. The house and buildings can be fixed. If the house needs attention, make sure there is sufficient flat room around it to expand, and flat space to put up useful buildings. The old stone buildings are lovely until you have to muck out with a wheelbarrow that does not fit through the door. These buildings will fill with "stuff" so are useful in a way. Do not buy a house tucked into a hillside - they are always damp. Check old maps for springs and wells. Springs here have a nasty habit of appearing by the back door...
Make sure it is ring fenced - oh how I wish I had done this!
As most of the weather comes from the west, make sure you are protected on that side.
I had a day job (teaching) for years and managed the farm around that. I fully understand the attraction of peeling off "posh" work wear and putting on "farm" work wear and walking out to breath, to smell the grass growing, to stroke an animal, to walk out into the yard at night to see all the stars, and hear the sheep coughing....
Dont buy a place down a long lane - they are a nightmare to maintain, and you may not like the total isolation, especially in winter. Check for phone and internet signal - many "not spots" for both around still, which does not make life easy.
If you like a place in driving rain, chances are you will like it when the sun shines! Good luck!