Snog, Marry, Avoid ....

Which Way?

  • Buy new

    Votes: 125 76.2%
  • Buy used

    Votes: 37 22.6%
  • 12-24 month hire

    Votes: 2 1.2%

  • Total voters
    164

kiwi pom

Member
Location
canterbury NZ
Very similar. JD is better at mowing and power harrow due to increased grunt, Fastrac better at towing - which is its purpose I suppose

I think buying your prime mover tractor with 4-5000 hrs already on the clock is a mistake due to conitinual niggles that morph in to bigger problems. Swallowing the initial purchase price is flexing my sphincter
I guess my option of selling kit, using a contractor and dropping a salary doesn't add up?
 

nxy

Member
Mixed Farmer
You are the minority, almost every tractor has increased in value in the past few years it has nothing to do with what you are using it's the fact that new ones have got so expensive that second hand values had to rise to allow people to make the jump from second hands to new ones.
Electric spools are progress, you must not have used many if you think they are either on or off.
Auto steer, suspension, electronic engine management, cabs, cvt gearboxes.
Have all made the job quicker and easier.
Ive used them all from 100 series masseys up the to latest models.
Put 2000 hours a year on a big awkward dog of an 80s designed American tractor 40 years on and you would be fit to be in a mental home.
Always the same on this forum, if you asked where to get the best pint of larger on the Isle of Wight someone would start beating a drum about the cider in Scotland is better.

I have to admit two things I am in France so don't follow the UK tractor market and that I haven't driven a tractor less than ten years old. These days I don't drive tractors much myself. We run 8 main tractors, the youngest is 2004 but most are from the mid 1990s. As I own them my main concern is cost and reliability.

What I can tell you is a few years back (about 2014?) I considered buying a cvt Case Puma that had 7000 hours on it but instead bought another Magnum (the 7240) with similar hours. The Puma was almost double the price of the Magnum. Today I doubt the Puma which would be pushing 10000 hours would be worth much more than the Magnum at around 20k.

How and why anyone no matter how large the farm or how many hours done buys new 200Hp tractors for 100k and more is a mystery to me.
 

Hilly

Member
I have to admit two things I am in France so don't follow the UK tractor market and that I haven't driven a tractor less than ten years old. These days I don't drive tractors much myself. We run 8 main tractors, the youngest is 2004 but most are from the mid 1990s. As I own them my main concern is cost and reliability.

What I can tell you is a few years back (about 2014?) I considered buying a cvt Case Puma that had 7000 hours on it but instead bought another Magnum (the 7240) with similar hours. The Puma was almost double the price of the Magnum. Today I doubt the Puma which would be pushing 10000 hours would be worth much more than the Magnum at around 20k.

How and why anyone no matter how large the farm or how many hours done buys new 200Hp tractors for 100k and more is a mystery to me.
It’s horses for courses , I don’t need any of that bling so don’t have it some feel they do need it so do , each to their own ! I do love a secondhand tractor but I need people to love new ones so their is a choice of secondhand , also secondhand you maybe have to be a bit mechanical minded and have time to faf about a bit with them many are not and don’t have the time etc .
 

nxy

Member
Mixed Farmer
Timeliness and weather are key. Can have very short windows on the Sainted Isle and then everyone is screaming
Given that windows are short and you are on Anglesey would it not be better to run two older tractors capable of handling the job? Then if one gives trouble you can carry on?

Why not keep your current tractor and buy another exactly the same model and age. That way parts are interchangeable and you get a machine that you are familiar with and that matches your implements.
 

som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
new isn't quite so good as stated, our new tractor, under 10 hrs, loader joystick, wouldn't tilt, not a problem, dealer straight out, but it did involve taking the back wheel off, to get to the problem !
 

Hilly

Member
Given that windows are short and you are on Anglesey would it not be better to run two older tractors capable of handling the job? Then if one gives trouble you can carry on?

Why not keep your current tractor and buy another exactly the same model and age. That way parts are interchangeable and you get a machine that you are familiar with and that matches your implements.
That’s what I did about ten years ago 😂 never had a timely break down 😂 Tis a good plan imo but not for everyone .
 
Yes hire prices have shot up a lot so it’s no longer viable. As for new prices I can’t get my head around them to be honest and I think you need to be doing 2000 hrs a year to justify it. At the end of the day if new is £150,000 then your paying back £170,000 or £34,000 a year over 5 years which for your 1000 hours is £34/hr before you fuel it, insure it, maintain it and put a driver on the seat.

I’d go second hand Puma cvx because if the gearbox went it’s about £5k to repair. If a JD or Fendt box goes it’s double that.

Its not worthless after 5 years though and thats if buying from scratch
 

Hilly

Member
Yes hire prices have shot up a lot so it’s no longer viable. As for new prices I can’t get my head around them to be honest and I think you need to be doing 2000 hrs a year to justify it. At the end of the day if new is £150,000 then your paying back £170,000 or £34,000 a year over 5 years which for your 1000 hours is £34/hr before you fuel it, insure it, maintain it and put a driver on the seat.

I’d go second hand Puma cvx because if the gearbox went it’s about £5k to repair. If a JD or Fendt box goes it’s double that.
You’d get a contractor for less than 34 and a driver !
 

James

Member
Location
Comber, Down
new isn't quite so good as stated, our new tractor, under 10 hrs, loader joystick, wouldn't tilt, not a problem, dealer straight out, but it did involve taking the back wheel off, to get to the problem !

I've seen my local dealer pull the back wheel off to do fairly minor repairs that could technically be done with the wheel on. However with the correct equipment it was likely quicker and certainly a whole lot easier done with the the wheel out of the way.
 

Mr CVX

Member
I have to admit two things I am in France so don't follow the UK tractor market and that I haven't driven a tractor less than ten years old. These days I don't drive tractors much myself. We run 8 main tractors, the youngest is 2004 but most are from the mid 1990s. As I own them my main concern is cost and reliability.

What I can tell you is a few years back (about 2014?) I considered buying a cvt Case Puma that had 7000 hours on it but instead bought another Magnum (the 7240) with similar hours. The Puma was almost double the price of the Magnum. Today I doubt the Puma which would be pushing 10000 hours would be worth much more than the Magnum at around 20k.

How and why anyone no matter how large the farm or how many hours done buys new 200Hp tractors for 100k and more is a mystery to

I have to admit two things I am in France so don't follow the UK tractor market and that I haven't driven a tractor less than ten years old. These days I don't drive tractors much myself. We run 8 main tractors, the youngest is 2004 but most are from the mid 1990s. As I own them my main concern is cost and reliability.

What I can tell you is a few years back (about 2014?) I considered buying a cvt Case Puma that had 7000 hours on it but instead bought another Magnum (the 7240) with similar hours. The Puma was almost double the price of the Magnum. Today I doubt the Puma which would be pushing 10000 hours would be worth much more than the Magnum at around 20k.

How and why anyone no matter how large the farm or how many hours done buys new 200Hp tractors for 100k and more is a mystery to me.
10k hours is absolutely nothing on modern tractors they would clock that within 5 years in some cases.
I have some of the ones you regard as rubbish shoving for 16k hours
 

nxy

Member
Mixed Farmer
10k hours is absolutely nothing on modern tractors they would clock that within 5 years in some cases.
I have some of the ones you regard as rubbish shoving for 16k hours
I don't think modern tractors are rubbish, far from it, but for me they have two problems

1 Initial cost and subsequent depreciation, if they held their value i might even consider one.

2 Additional complexity, some I admit is useful but at least some of which is due to emissions control.
 
You’d get a contractor for less than 34 and a driver !

Which is why I said you need to be doing 2000 hours a year to get it to stack up. Last week I went to look at a privately advertised bale trailer. It was a contractor and he’d got 15 tractors all within 3 years old. All on full 3 year warranties. He’d got 5 on order for delivery in January to replace the 5 oldest as their warranties run out at that point. All his tractors are doing 1500-2500 hours a year and he said the main reason he keeps the finance houses in business is his operators who are basically dictating their tractors are swapped. He said staff would ultimately finish his business because he’s struggling to pay them enough as it is, but as soon as the equipment isn’t fresh they’ll go elsewhere because there’s no where near enough tractor drivers around anymore and he said getting people just for so silaging season is nigh on impossible so that’s being mopped up by sub contracting to one man band farmers sons but they are starting to want £50/hour for pulling a trailer.
 
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I think its a bit ott to pretend its a gamble.

Not really because you can’t guarantee a used value after 5 years use. Yes you can have a guess but we could go from there being not much good quality used on the market like now, to there being to many because ELMS has taken half the farmland out of production. 5 years is a long time. The only way new looks like anything sensible to me is it’s costs you £170,000 with interest, but it stays for life. Even then your still paying out £170,000 over 5 years.

A £170,000 house over 5 years will return you £50,000 in rent and still be worth £170,000 if not a chunk more in the present market, but alas still a gamble.

Turning a farming building into a holiday let for £170,000 would probably return you £75,000 over 5 years.
 

Hilly

Member
Which is why I said you need to be doing 2000 hours a year to get it to stack up. Last week I went to look at a privately advertised bale trailer. It was a contractor and he’d got 15 tractors all within 3 years old. All on full 3 year warranties. He’d got 5 on order for delivery in January to replace the 5 oldest as their warranties run out at that point. All his tractors are doing 1500-2500 hours a year and he said the main reason he keeps the finance houses in business is his operators who are basically dictating their tractors are swapped. He said staff would ultimately finish his business because he’s struggling to pay them enough as it is, but as soon as the equipment isn’t fresh they’ll go elsewhere because there’s no where near enough tractor drivers around anymore and he said getting people just for so silaging season is nigh on impossible so that’s being mopped up by sub contracting to one man band farmers sons but they are starting to want £50/hour for pulling a trailer.
It’s a story all to
Common.
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 80 42.3%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 66 34.9%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 30 15.9%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 7 3.7%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

  • 1,294
  • 1
As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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