So is this the post Brexit Utopia we were promised?

[gone]

"There are none so blind as those who will not see".

 

[Adam@Rumen]

Neither gas prices, the fuel shortages, or the shortfall of lorry drivers, have anything to do with Brexit.

We lost some Eastern European drivers straight after Brexit. I think some were thinking of going back and it sort of sealed the deal.

 

[ollie989898]

If there is one thing you can blame on Brexit it was the Australia-French submarine deal and thus the UK-French collaboration on the next generation stealth cruise missile. Funnily enough, both were running late, hugely over-budget and hugely one-sided in favour of the French. That is how it is with them. They never do deals unless it totally suits them. It is why there are never any USA-France deals.

 

[Adam@Rumen]

I'm not sure the European driver shortage is too bad.

It's currently quicker for us to pull goods out of Central Europe and have them delivered by road with a European haulier than it is for us to get a UK haulier to deliver from UK dockside.

 

[ollie989898]

our problems with gas prices are due to a succession of politicians each wanting to "out greenwash the last" without a strategic plan to transition to a lower carbon society and not explaining that these policies are going to lead to a great deal of pain and changes to society, of course saying those things would be a micro aggression and they would be no platformed, so we get the policies our society deserves!

It isn't even limited to this current government either. For the last 20 years we have had a collection of muppets running the show and I don't just mean at national level- the same is true of regional/county and local governments. The system is infected with people who have little life experience, foresight or business acumen but who are all merrily taking a nice salary and pension along for the ride.

Tony Blair got this country addicted to natural gas. We have had 20 years of short term politics and vote catching agendas which are now coming home to roost.

There cannot be a shortage of tanker drivers who are all on £70K plus. A shortage of curtainsiders I would believe- years of supermarkets and the like pishing them off has put the average British driver off and good on them. It is a bit of a pain to have to hunt for fuel, or see shop shelves empty but I honestly am glad to see the worm is turning and that the working man in this country is finally putting his foot down. Enough is enough. I was on the bus yesterday and a middle class bloke laid into the bus driver about the fact he had bought the wrong ticket. I had to bite my tongue and not say anything but the driver was properly angry about it. No wonder there is a shortage of truck drivers, nurses and all of the above if people are speaking to them like this. It is high time the rich were taxed and the system was made far more equitable. We have lost our way as a society.

I managed to find fuel at 9pm on Sunday night after my 12 hour healthcare shift and was so thankful to the man behind the counter, but he explained that he had had nothing but abuse all day and I was the only person who had actually thanked him. I drove home very relieved for having found fuel but I'd be lying if I said I didn't quite enjoy the thought of some Londoners unable to drive their 4 litre BMW X5 to their Cornwall holiday home this weekend for lack of fuel.

It is high time that the working man in Britain was paid a decent wage and treated fairly by the customer without his sweat being milked off by shareholders. If the country has to go through some growing pains I am all for it, but anything that forces folk like Tesco and Amazon to pull their claws in is all for the good of our society IMO. The same goes for all the key workers out there who are paid a pittance and treated like the proverbial. So they can't get fruit pickers, put up the price and let the customer pay for the privilege.

 

[tinsheet]

"There are none so blind as those who will not see".

WHO SAID THAT !!

 

[farmerm]

It isn't even limited to this current government either. For the last 20 years we have had a collection of muppets running the show and I don't just mean at national level- the same is true of regional/county and local governments. The system is infected with people who have little life experience, foresight or business acumen but who are all merrily taking a nice salary and pension along for the ride.

Tony Blair got this country addicted to natural gas. We have had 20 years of short term politics and vote catching agendas which are now coming home to roost.

There cannot be a shortage of tanker drivers who are all on £70K plus. A shortage of curtainsiders I would believe- years of supermarkets and the like pishing them off has put the average British driver off and good on them. It is a bit of a pain to have to hunt for fuel, or see shop shelves empty but I honestly am glad to see the worm is turning and that the working man in this country is finding putting his foot down. Enough is enough. I was on the bus yesterday and a middle class bloke laid into the bus driver about the fact he had bought the wrong ticket. I had to bite my tongue and not say anything but the driver was properly angry about it. No wonder there is a shortage of truck drivers, nurses and all of the above if people are speaking to them like this. It is high time the rich were taxed and the system was made far more equitable. We have lost our way as a society.

I managed to find fuel at 9pm on Sunday night after my 12 hour healthcare shift and was so thankful to the man behind the counter, but he explained that he had had nothing but abuse all day and I was the only person who had actually thanked him. I drove home very relieved for having found fuel but I'd be lying if I said I didn't quite enjoy the thought of some Londoners unable to drive their 4 litre BMW X5 to their Cornwall holiday home this weekend for lack of fuel.

It is high time that the working man in Britain was paid a decent wage and treated fairly by the customer without his sweat being milked off by shareholders. If the country has to go through some growing pains I am all for it, but anything that forces folk like Tesco and Amazon to pull their claws in is all for the good of our society IMO. The same goes for all the key workers out there who are paid a pittance and treated like the proverbial. So they can't get fruit pickers, put up the price and let the customer pay for the privilege.

Put up the price, watch consumers buy imports instead, go bust, sack staff. Great plan!! But let’s go back a step, few producers are in a position where they have any control or influence over the price they can sell produce at!

 

[ollie989898]

Put up the price, watch consumers buy imports instead, go bust, sack staff. Great plan!! But let’s go back a step, few producers are in a position where they have any control or influence over the price they can sell produce at!

This all year round fruit and veg thing isn't environmentally friendly. We didn't need it in the 1950's and we don't need it now. The retail prices vs producer prices of food need addressing and this shortage of workers is just one symptom of much deeper problems in the food chain.

These are all symptoms of what I call 'fudge-you' Britain.

 

[gone]

WHO SAID THAT !!

It is a reworking of a Biblical quote, I think most famously used by Jonathan Shift.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Put up the price, watch consumers buy imports instead, go bust, sack staff. Great plan!! But let’s go back a step, few producers are in a position where they have any control or influence over the price they can sell produce at!

That doesn't fit the long term plan of the British elite......

 

[Exfarmer]

The existing UK nationals who are lorry drivers, veg pickers, cleaners etc. who had their wages stuck at low levels due to eastern European workers coming over here, are probably quite glad to see their wages rising closer to other workers in the economy.

The wage gap between high earners and low earners was too large imho, and about time it was narrowed.

I was in the veg industry in the 90's and many people were forecasting the imminent end due to the impossibility of recruiting staff to pick and grade etc. There was a sharp decline in the production of fruit and veg as it migrated towards those countries with cheaper labour. Then the fall of the Berlin Wall allowed the flood of workers who were not just prepared to work, were actually keen and did not disappear on Wednesdays to go and claim their dole.
Men and women who were decent, who did not, as I was a couple of times, proposition you, but just wanted to crack on with the job in hand and really could not believe the wages we were paying. Many went back home with enough cash after a season to buy a house and car.
Of course the situation has changed a lot know in the industry, the veg growing is far more professional , dominated by a few large growers who are in the position to employ such staff full time. This will appeal far more to many who Arte after a regular job and not a few weeks in thew autumn.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

If there is one thing you can blame on Brexit it was the Australia-French submarine deal and thus the UK-French collaboration on the next generation stealth cruise missile. Funnily enough, both were running late, hugely over-budget and hugely one-sided in favour of the French. That is how it is with them. They never do deals unless it totally suits them. It is why there are never any USA-France deals.

You could also reverse that and it'd be equally true:
That is how it is with them. They never do deals unless it totally suits them. It is why there are never any France-USA deals.
How many huge deals with US companies run very late and go eat over budget. The US trade negotiators are renowned for only agreeing deals that are massively in their favour.

 

[wanton dwarf]

The 51-year-old told The Sun he had quit earlier this month after working for Hoyer for more than four years, and claimed drivers were leaving due to poor pay, long and unsociable hours, a lack of sick pay or holiday benefits.

He said: “We love our job but we’re being treated like absolute s**t.

"Drivers are leaving in droves, that’s why there’s a shortage.

Lorry driver blames BP contractor's ‘poor’ working conditions for fuel crisis

The former tanker driver at BP petrol delivery contractor Hoyer Petrolog claims lorry drivers quit in droves due to 'poor' pay, long and unsociable hours, and a lack of sick pay

www.mirror.co.uk

That's a German company BTW that does BP deliveries.

 

[Ukjay]

Seems strange that there was (including serving Armed Forces drivers) circa 80k skilled LGV drivers registered in UK in 2016 who also had current CPC's whom were not actively driving LGV's any longer, an additional 90k trained LGV drivers that were not holding a valid CPC so cannot drive and we read here Brexit has caused our shortage of drivers?

I would say it is not a shortage of drivers perse, but more that they became seriously pee'd off with getting fobbed off with shitty work conditions / facilities, being told what to do by some over educated uni grad who has never set their arse in an LGV, but apparently knows how long everything should take to do as the tracker systems the big players installed monitores everything and calculates the routes etc - turning skilled drivers into slaves with no voice.
pee'd off with being responsible for any fines etc for over laden wagons - which they have been forced to take or lose their jobs in previous years, as they had to pay the fines.
And most imporantly I would say - they could earn more money elsewhere, and get home and spend time with their families!

Additionally - there was a discussion in that they asked was the real route cause more of an over supply of truck trained drivers leading to the drop in wages expected within the industry - therefore making the industry less appealing to people, hm, makes you wonder!


Now, next up, as China is having power issues currently to meet its obligation on emmisions, and they have in places, and continue to do so - shutting down factories to run two days a week as a result - this will and has been impacting supply chains globally, and has sweet FA to do with Brexit, but im sure it will be blamed for it somewhere.

 

[Exfarmer]

If anything the last 12 months have shown up what a disaster the EU is/was.
Allowing cheap foreign labour to take the place of our own drivers/ veg pickers / turkey pluckers....ultimately in the long run we have to do our own work ? And that goes for manufacturing and energy too.
Agriculture has been ruined with subsidies going to big chaps to buy more land to get bigger, and an acceptance that paying £70/ acre dole makes up for 15th century prices. 52% of small family farms lost since 1972.
We never had empty shelves and turkey shortages when small family farms were in charge.
Shame we didn't leave 15, or 20 years ago.

you do realise theat for 40 years one of Britains big battles in the EU was to ensure that payments were made across the board , rather than just the small farms.
Brussels for years has railed against paying large farmers vast sums of money when they wanted it pushed towards small family farms.
You can thank Prime ministers from Maggie onwards, that Brussels did not shunt all aid to those with under 10Ha

 

[Still Farming]

Who knows eastern Europeans drivers ever got stringent driving tests and legal over here licences anyhow?

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Seems strange that there was (including serving Armed Forces drivers) circa 80k skilled LGV drivers registered in UK in 2016 who also had current CPC's whom were not actively driving LGV's any longer, an additional 90k trained LGV drivers that were not holding a valid CPC so cannot drive and we read here Brexit has caused our shortage of drivers?

I would say it is not a shortage of drivers perse, but more that they became seriously pee'd off with getting fobbed off with shitty work conditions / facilities, being told what to do by some over educated uni grad who has never set their arse in an LGV, but apparently knows how long everything should take to do as the tracker systems the big players installed monitores everything and calculates the routes etc - turning skilled drivers into slaves with no voice.
pee'd off with being responsible for any fines etc for over laden wagons - which they have been forced to take or lose their jobs in previous years, as they had to pay the fines.
And most imporantly I would say - they could earn more money elsewhere, and get home and spend time with their families!

Additionally - there was a discussion in that they asked was the real route cause more of an over supply of truck trained drivers leading to the drop in wages expected within the industry - therefore making the industry less appealing to people, hm, makes you wonder!


Now, next up, as China is having power issues currently to meet its obligation on emmisions, and they have in places, and continue to do so - shutting down factories to run two days a week as a result - this will and has been impacting supply chains globally, and has sweet FA to do with Brexit, but im sure it will be blamed for it somewhere.

A van driver who delivered her yesterday said exactly that. He quit driving LGV's because the pay didn't compensate for the nights away, the crap diet and being charged £40 for overnight parking but only given £30 by his boss to cover it.

 

[Exfarmer]

Exactly what Dyson said recently, we have far too many academics and not enough engineers. You've just got to watch University Challenge to see what absolutely useless courses they are on. Occasionally someone studying medicine, but seldom an engineer, more likely some of the other rubbish like a degree in gender equality etc give me strength!

to be fair most of those on the tougher courses like engineering, do not have time to waste on vanity quizzing.
Its wasting time in the pub

 

[ollie989898]

You could also reverse that and it'd be equally true:
That is how it is with them. They never do deals unless it totally suits them. It is why there are never any France-USA deals.
How many huge deals with US companies run very late and go eat over budget. The US trade negotiators are renowned for only agreeing deals that are massively in their favour.

Totally agree. But the USA are happy to share technology for the collective good. The French make the right noises, start a project, steal your tech and you never hear from them again.

If it wasn't for the USA, there would be no British nuclear submarines and that is a fact.

 

[czechmate]

There's a little tickly cough going about that could have something to do with it!

Top result yesterday for the uk. More covid cases than India and Brazil combined