I thought you used to be an agronomist?
Well if you were you would know that seperate passes for manganese are the difference between a crop and no crop on some soils.
So in some situations you categorically DO need a separate pass for Manganese.
So many passes
- Thread starter FarmerBruce
- Start date
I thought you used to be an agronomist?
Well if you were you would know that seperate passes for manganese are the difference between a crop and no crop on some soils.
So in some situations you categorically DO need a separate pass for Manganese.
Yes, but it's hard to see how to cut back.
Pre drilling glyphosate
Pre em herbicide
Autumn insecticide not necessary if using Deter seed dressing
Broadway Star/Atlantis best done as a stand alone application in March depending on weather
T0, T1, T2, T3 needed to have complete protection from septoria from leaf 4 to mid flowering. Do it by leaf emergence 4321 and you're up to 5 fungicide passes...
Add slug pellet doses too
P and K and Mg and lime are done as straights at variable rates
40 kg N to help the crop wake up and tiller out in March then 2 main splits from GS 30 - 33
Muck spreading
You forgot the T1.5
and when deter has gone up to 3 pyrethroid applications in the far west 
I guess it depends on weed burden etc but we don't pre em and dont autumn insecticide and that saves 2 passes - avdex on the drill is a preem when we use it but as done at drilling isn an extra pass
spring wise there is not much scope to save, Bway a separate pass I agree is best, 3 fungicides min unless you are felling VERY lucky and 3 N splits (4 if milling)
SilliamWhale
Member
Potentially combine glyphosate and pre-em but its not always convenient. Potentially drop T0 but is it worth it?
The biggest savings come from less cultivation passes! I still roll but I should really think about trying to drop it. It makes me feel better though.
- Location
- Berkshire
This thread is a bit of a “how long is a piece of string” type of topic...
On my last farm I had one block on good high yielding soil with bg = lots of passes !!
On another block with flinty thin soils that had 2t/ha less potential the owner had been in a Wheat/fallow rotation for a long time, I grew later drilled Alchemy for a few years there with a pre em, which was it until T1+2 with all the other treatments added to these two.
3 splits of N and all p+k through muck or sludge, different situations = different approach’s, do what suits you...
On my last farm I had one block on good high yielding soil with bg = lots of passes !!
On another block with flinty thin soils that had 2t/ha less potential the owner had been in a Wheat/fallow rotation for a long time, I grew later drilled Alchemy for a few years there with a pre em, which was it until T1+2 with all the other treatments added to these two.
3 splits of N and all p+k through muck or sludge, different situations = different approach’s, do what suits you...
- Location
- Yorks
I think the OP is being realistic about the number of passes. They're all going to cost at least £3 for the machine to go through.
True. Here's another way of looking at it - fewer passes with more expensive material e.g. branded compound fertiliser vs Fibrophos or higher rates of eradicant fungicides because of longer intervals. Frequently, the savings in material outweigh the cost of extra passes. If you have the time and can travel of course.
Princess Pooper
Member
- Location
- East Mids
OK I'm only a humble dairy farmer with a piddling little 10 ha or so of feed wheat most years, so contractors are used for all operations other than fert which concentrates the mind a little. 1st wheat follows 4 years of grass, normally ploughed as silaging creates compaction. then a 2nd wheat, then HLS fallow and back into grass. Mindful of N release on cultivating in a good clover grass ley we apply no fym before the first wheat. We are on heavy soil so winter wheat normally has to be in by mid October or it won't get in at all. As we plough and we have 4 year leys we do not have a blackgrass issue and due to using fym on the stubble and when in grass, we rarely have to apply any P or K, no trace elements just occasional lime. Obviously there is a cost to muck spreading but we would have to do something with it anyway.
2 ammonium nitrate applications in the spring - can't usually travel until very end of March or early April. Sprays left to agronomist recommendation. Knowing we don't want to spend a lot we tend to go for a variety with robust disease resistance. Last year we had a T1 and T2 and no herbicide was required although we do need one sometimes. We have had no autumn sprays in the last 20 years that I can recall - good thing because it would be difficult to travel most years . We may not have the highest yields in the world but we've not gone bust yet. Usually glyphosate gets used once in the rotation after the fallow, plus occasionally on the grass before it is ploughed in, (if not that is usually when we need to use a herbicide in the first wheat). We will need a herbicide on the 1st wheat this year as there are a fair few docks.
as silaging creates compaction. then a 2nd wheat, then HLS fallow and back into grass. Mindful of N release on cultivating in a good clover grass ley we apply no fym before the first wheat. We are on heavy soil so winter wheat normally has to be in by mid October or it won't get in at all. As we plough and we have 4 year leys we do not have a blackgrass issue and due to using fym on the stubble and when in grass, we rarely have to apply any P or K, no trace elements just occasional lime. Obviously there is a cost to muck spreading but we would have to do something with it anyway.2 ammonium nitrate applications in the spring - can't usually travel until very end of March or early April. Sprays left to agronomist recommendation. Knowing we don't want to spend a lot we tend to go for a variety with robust disease resistance. Last year we had a T1 and T2 and no herbicide was required although we do need one sometimes. We have had no autumn sprays in the last 20 years that I can recall - good thing because it would be difficult to travel most years . We may not have the highest yields in the world but we've not gone bust yet. Usually glyphosate gets used once in the rotation after the fallow, plus occasionally on the grass before it is ploughed in, (if not that is usually when we need to use a herbicide in the first wheat). We will need a herbicide on the 1st wheat this year as there are a fair few docks.
The cost of extra passes is only really the cost of the fuel and extra r&m if you already have the machinery and labour most of it’s ownership cost is already fixed
I would rather do extra passes than compromise the job
- Location
- Lincolnshire.
Sounds pretty sensible to me. I seriously wonder if the arable specialists, with their 36m booms, turn compensation, auto levelling, individual nozzle control, not forgetting rtk switching are making better use of the worlds resources than you.OK I'm only a humble dairy farmer with a piddling little 10 ha or so of feed wheat most years, so contractors are used for all operations other than fert which concentrates the mind a little. 1st wheat follows 4 years of grass, normally ploughed
2 ammonium nitrate applications in the spring - can't usually travel until very end of March or early April. Sprays left to agronomist recommendation. Knowing we don't want to spend a lot we tend to go for a variety with robust disease resistance. Last year we had a T1 and T2 and no herbicide was required although we do need one sometimes. We have had no autumn sprays in the last 20 years that I can recall - good thing because it would be difficult to travel most years . We may not have the highest yields in the world but we've not gone bust yet. Usually glyphosate gets used once in the rotation after the fallow, plus occasionally on the grass before it is ploughed in, (if not that is usually when we need to use a herbicide in the first wheat). We will need a herbicide on the 1st wheat this year as there are a fair few docks.
FarmerBruce
Member
- Location
- Yorkshire
I’m not wanting to compromise the job. I’m just thinking of how it’s changed in the last 15 years or so since I started spraying/ferting.
1 autumn herbicide
2 fungicides
2 N splits
Possibly extra pass for manganese and that was it
And we were still doing good yields back then!!
and that is a fair point !
so why are we needing to do so much more to get much the same results these days ? marketing ? or is land becoming less productive unless its gets its bags and bottle fix ? are we slowly farming towards an unsustainable situation ?
Last edited:
- Location
- S E Glos
Chemicals are becoming less effective, weeds and diseases harder to control. I remember the days when the 'cop-out'/cure-all treatment for weeds was a dose of Swipe, then shut the gate. IPU if you had grass weeds.
12 sprayer passes, 3 slug, 4 fert
2x roundup pre-drill
Pre-m
2nd pre em
Insecticide
TO
T1
T1.5
T2
OBM
T3
T4
2x roundup pre-drill
Pre-m
2nd pre em
Insecticide
TO
T1
T1.5
T2
OBM
T3
T4
FarmerBruce
Member
- Location
- Yorkshire
Crazy
- Location
- Oxfordshire
I seem to recall TAG or was it ARC back then doing trials studying the potential of reduced passes through the crops was it 3, 5 and 7 from memory , to include all fert and sprays ? I think it was in response to wheat at £70/ton ? I guess the idea faded away with prices between £100 and £200 and the realisation that it wasn't possible for most growers ? Resistant blackgrass, septoria and pests , and excessive nitrogen requirements (+sulphur) for modern milling wheats are the obvious culprits.
It doesn't look good to the general public seeing the sheer volume of chemicals required to grow a crop, and it is depressing if you do every pass through every crop to know first hand how it has ramped up in the last 10 years. (1 good reason to grow winter beans) The only reduction in passes generally is with less cultivations.
One of the ploughing experts will probably point out that its no coincidence that the 2 go hand in hand
Wow theres no wonder arable farms are struggling with all these inputs
I grow 10-15 acres of spring barley a year for wholecrop. Used to combine it and do 3 to 4 tonne an acre every year. That was with one dose of nitrogen at sowing and a squirt of mcpa i think i used fungicide once too. I assumed arable farming was easy after that shows what i know
I grow 10-15 acres of spring barley a year for wholecrop. Used to combine it and do 3 to 4 tonne an acre every year. That was with one dose of nitrogen at sowing and a squirt of mcpa i think i used fungicide once too. I assumed arable farming was easy after that shows what i know