So why are so many vaccinated people getting Covid?

Makes no sense to me I know so many people who were double vac yet been ill. Ive had an argument with my mum that its failed to promise. So vaccinated and non vac give the same risks to the vulnerable. Then she says that will have it a lot less than non-vac - how does she know this what evidence is there for this. eg healthy couple double vaccinated one had hardly any symptoms while the other was in bed for a few days. Same for a non-vac couple its not set in stone you will be ill I also know a few who have had minor symptoms actually most would say they have had worse flu.

So if this continues and more people vac incl children the risk is the same. If my child has hardly any symptoms socialises with their grandma the risk is the same even if triple vac. As yet no idea whether she would get any illness it could of course go 3 ways ie. little to zero, illness or they kill her off. Surely the 3 steps could be nothing to do with the vac she could have strong immunity (tough as old boots).

I have said before we turn up to see her we'll all do tests as we obv dont want to kill her off.

I think she has been so brain washed into believing everyone having the vac will protect and because she wears a mask she is 100% protected. I feel the last few years have ruined their life as usually full of life, socialising etc. Her attitude to her grandchildren has slightly gone to a fear - this is so so sad. This is the last tier of her life not worried that she my die of the usual diseases but living in this endless fear believing everything she is reading.

With different strains I dont get the promise.
 

Exfarmer

Member
Location
Bury St Edmunds
Simply speaking, so far there has not been a real vaccine. Just like TB there are products which give a certain level of protection, but nothing like the 100 per cent that cow pox gives against small pox to the extent smallpox has gone, dead, extinct , just like a Norwegian parrot.
It does seem that current products give a very high degree of protection against death and a pretty good degree of protection against hospitalisation.
sadly all respiratory diseases are difficult to vaccinate against as the surface of the lungs , are technically outside the body and that is the point which these diseases attack first and yet not possible for the bodies antibodies to attack
.
 

Goweresque

Member
Location
North Wilts
Because what the vaccine sceptics said would happen when these mRNA vaccines were announced is coming to pass. Its increasingly apparent that a) the mRNA vaccines do not protect against infection, indeed after a few months of protection they seem to increase the likelihood of it, and b) there is data beginning to come out that if you catch covid after double vaccination your body's immune response is not the same as when an unvaccinated person gets it. A vaccinated person who then gets covid appears to end up with a low N antibody response to the covid virus. This means that any future infections from mutations will affect you far worse, as your body doesn't have the full 'tool kit' to deal with the whole virus, its just 'learned' to deal with the virus via its spike protein (using S antibodies) that the vaccines produce in our bodies, but has low N (or nucleus) antibody response. When you catch and survive covid as an unvaccinated person you get full S and N antibody responses which then cover you for a far greater range of virus mutations.

This data comes from the latest UK Health Security Agency, see page 23 of this report:


Quote: recent observations from UK Health Security Agency (UKHSA) surveillance data that N antibody levels appear to be lower in individuals who acquire infection following 2 doses of vaccination.

Think of it as having just one size of spanner to fix your machine, because it has all the same size nuts and bolts, so one size of spanner works fine. But if the manufacturer suddenly decides to change the size of some bolts then your one tool kit box won't fix the problem........

This is bad news for anyone who has taken the vaccine. It means that even if you catch covid after vaccination you will not then have the same immunity that a non-vaccinated person has post infection, and if the virus then mutates its spike protein a bit the next new variant could bypass your immune system entirely.

Seriously, if the N antibody response is as low in the vaccinated as the data suggest, this is VERY bad news.
 
Because what the vaccine sceptics said would happen when these mRNA vaccines were announced is coming to pass. Its increasingly apparent that a) the mRNA vaccines do not protect against infection, indeed after a few months of protection they seem to increase the likelihood of it, and b) there is data beginning to come out that if you catch covid after double vaccination your body's immune response is not the same as when an unvaccinated person gets it. A vaccinated person who then gets covid appears to end up with a low N antibody response to the covid virus. This means that any future infections from mutations will affect you far worse, as your body doesn't have the full 'tool kit' to deal with the whole virus, its just 'learned' to deal with the virus via its spike protein (using S antibodies) that the vaccines produce in our bodies, but has low N (or nucleus) antibody response. When you catch and survive covid as an unvaccinated person you get full S and N antibody responses which then cover you for a far greater range of virus mutations.

This data comes from the latest UK Health Security Agency, see page 23 of this report:


Quote: recent observations from UK Health Security Agency (UKHSA) surveillance data that N antibody levels appear to be lower in individuals who acquire infection following 2 doses of vaccination.

Think of it as having just one size of spanner to fix your machine, because it has all the same size nuts and bolts, so one size of spanner works fine. But if the manufacturer suddenly decides to change the size of some bolts then your one tool kit box won't fix the problem........

This is bad news for anyone who has taken the vaccine. It means that even if you catch covid after vaccination you will not then have the same immunity that a non-vaccinated person has post infection, and if the virus then mutates its spike protein a bit the next new variant could bypass your immune system entirely.

Seriously, if the N antibody response is as low in the vaccinated as the data suggest, this is VERY bad news.
If the above is true, then those responsible for mandating the use of ineffective vaccines at UN and government level must be held to account as equally the media who were complicit.
 

essex man

Member
Location
colchester
The vaccine does not grant mucosal (nose and throat) immunity, hence you catch and pass it on.
Mucosal immunity comes from infection, some suggestion that vaccination can interfere with infection based immunity.
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot_20211023-212743.png
    Screenshot_20211023-212743.png
    449.5 KB · Views: 0

kiwi pom

Member
Location
canterbury NZ
Because what the vaccine sceptics said would happen when these mRNA vaccines were announced is coming to pass. Its increasingly apparent that a) the mRNA vaccines do not protect against infection, indeed after a few months of protection they seem to increase the likelihood of it, and b) there is data beginning to come out that if you catch covid after double vaccination your body's immune response is not the same as when an unvaccinated person gets it. A vaccinated person who then gets covid appears to end up with a low N antibody response to the covid virus. This means that any future infections from mutations will affect you far worse, as your body doesn't have the full 'tool kit' to deal with the whole virus, its just 'learned' to deal with the virus via its spike protein (using S antibodies) that the vaccines produce in our bodies, but has low N (or nucleus) antibody response. When you catch and survive covid as an unvaccinated person you get full S and N antibody responses which then cover you for a far greater range of virus mutations.

This data comes from the latest UK Health Security Agency, see page 23 of this report:


Quote: recent observations from UK Health Security Agency (UKHSA) surveillance data that N antibody levels appear to be lower in individuals who acquire infection following 2 doses of vaccination.

Think of it as having just one size of spanner to fix your machine, because it has all the same size nuts and bolts, so one size of spanner works fine. But if the manufacturer suddenly decides to change the size of some bolts then your one tool kit box won't fix the problem........

This is bad news for anyone who has taken the vaccine. It means that even if you catch covid after vaccination you will not then have the same immunity that a non-vaccinated person has post infection, and if the virus then mutates its spike protein a bit the next new variant could bypass your immune system entirely.

Seriously, if the N antibody response is as low in the vaccinated as the data suggest, this is VERY bad news.
The problem is that being unvaccinated and catching Covid tends to kill a lot of people, so they never get the chance to be immune to the next strain.
 

Charlie Gill

Member
Location
Kent
... there is data beginning to come out that if you catch covid after double vaccination your body's immune response is not the same as when an unvaccinated person gets it....

Yes, the immune system is primed (y)

I did know what you meant, but if you are likely to suffer a bad outcome from catching it then there is only one option, not 2.
 

Exfarmer

Member
Location
Bury St Edmunds
Because what the vaccine sceptics said would happen when these mRNA vaccines were announced is coming to pass. Its increasingly apparent that a) the mRNA vaccines do not protect against infection, indeed after a few months of protection they seem to increase the likelihood of it, and b) there is data beginning to come out that if you catch covid after double vaccination your body's immune response is not the same as when an unvaccinated person gets it. A vaccinated person who then gets covid appears to end up with a low N antibody response to the covid virus. This means that any future infections from mutations will affect you far worse, as your body doesn't have the full 'tool kit' to deal with the whole virus, its just 'learned' to deal with the virus via its spike protein (using S antibodies) that the vaccines produce in our bodies, but has low N (or nucleus) antibody response. When you catch and survive covid as an unvaccinated person you get full S and N antibody responses which then cover you for a far greater range of virus mutations.

This data comes from the latest UK Health Security Agency, see page 23 of this report:


Quote: recent observations from UK Health Security Agency (UKHSA) surveillance data that N antibody levels appear to be lower in individuals who acquire infection following 2 doses of vaccination.

Think of it as having just one size of spanner to fix your machine, because it has all the same size nuts and bolts, so one size of spanner works fine. But if the manufacturer suddenly decides to change the size of some bolts then your one tool kit box won't fix the problem........

This is bad news for anyone who has taken the vaccine. It means that even if you catch covid after vaccination you will not then have the same immunity that a non-vaccinated person has post infection, and if the virus then mutates its spike protein a bit the next new variant could bypass your immune system entirely.

Seriously, if the N antibody response is as low in the vaccinated as the data suggest, this is VERY bad news.
Close relative got covid after a double shot and was quite ill, dread to think if he had not been vaccinated
 

essex man

Member
Location
colchester
Because what the vaccine sceptics said would happen when these mRNA vaccines were announced is coming to pass. Its increasingly apparent that a) the mRNA vaccines do not protect against infection, indeed after a few months of protection they seem to increase the likelihood of it, and b) there is data beginning to come out that if you catch covid after double vaccination your body's immune response is not the same as when an unvaccinated person gets it. A vaccinated person who then gets covid appears to end up with a low N antibody response to the covid virus. This means that any future infections from mutations will affect you far worse, as your body doesn't have the full 'tool kit' to deal with the whole virus, its just 'learned' to deal with the virus via its spike protein (using S antibodies) that the vaccines produce in our bodies, but has low N (or nucleus) antibody response. When you catch and survive covid as an unvaccinated person you get full S and N antibody responses which then cover you for a far greater range of virus mutations.

This data comes from the latest UK Health Security Agency, see page 23 of this report:


Quote: recent observations from UK Health Security Agency (UKHSA) surveillance data that N antibody levels appear to be lower in individuals who acquire infection following 2 doses of vaccination.

Think of it as having just one size of spanner to fix your machine, because it has all the same size nuts and bolts, so one size of spanner works fine. But if the manufacturer suddenly decides to change the size of some bolts then your one tool kit box won't fix the problem........

This is bad news for anyone who has taken the vaccine. It means that even if you catch covid after vaccination you will not then have the same immunity that a non-vaccinated person has post infection, and if the virus then mutates its spike protein a bit the next new variant could bypass your immune system entirely.

Seriously, if the N antibody response is as low in the vaccinated as the data suggest, this is VERY bad news.
Yes, it's the problem with the completely needless vaccination of the vast majority who are not vulnerable.
We are still learning clearly, there was no need to do this
 

Goweresque

Member
Location
North Wilts
Close relative got covid after a double shot and was quite ill, dread to think if he had not been vaccinated

Thats because you're assuming (with no great evidence to do so) that the vaccine was in no way the cause of the infection. Its entirely possible that your relative caught covid BECAUSE they were vaccinated, not despite. The data is very clear - the double vaccinated are now MORE likely to catch the virus than the non-vaccinated, see the UK HSA report I linked to above.

Its no good saying 'I nearly died from covid, thank goodness I had the vaccine' if the vaccine is the reason you caught it in the first place.

And the second point about low N antibodies is about the future, not the here and now. Lets assume the vaccines do protect against death from the versions of the virus we see today, but in doing so they damage your ability to counter new versions in the future. Yes you survive now, but are now at far greater risk in the future. If there's one thing we know about coronaviruses its that they mutate like b*ggery. It will only take a small mutation in the spike protein for a new version to bypass the S antibody defences entirely, and where are you then?
 

SteveHants

Member
Livestock Farmer
Its more likely because they were in some way immunocompromised.

Immunocompromised people have a reduced ability to mount an immune response. Vaccines give the immune system the "blueprint" to produce antibodies. Therefore, the immune response of an immunocompromised person will be worse than that of a "normal" immune system anyway, so even with the vaccine, they could struggle - they are, however less likely to get hospitalised and/or die because at least there is no "lag" whilst the immune system learns to make antibodies by combatting the live virus.
 

SteveHants

Member
Livestock Farmer
Thats because you're assuming (with no great evidence to do so) that the vaccine was in no way the cause of the infection. Its entirely possible that your relative caught covid BECAUSE they were vaccinated, not despite. The data is very clear - the double vaccinated are now MORE likely to catch the virus than the non-vaccinated, see the UK HSA report I linked to above.

Its no good saying 'I nearly died from covid, thank goodness I had the vaccine' if the vaccine is the reason you caught it in the first place.

And the second point about low N antibodies is about the future, not the here and now. Lets assume the vaccines do protect against death from the versions of the virus we see today, but in doing so they damage your ability to counter new versions in the future. Yes you survive now, but are now at far greater risk in the future. If there's one thing we know about coronaviruses its that they mutate like b*ggery. It will only take a small mutation in the spike protein for a new version to bypass the S antibody defences entirely, and where are you then?
Vaccines don't stop you catching diseases, They never have. They enable you to mount a quick, effective immune response when you do catch a disease, often (but not always) before you develop symptoms.
 

Goweresque

Member
Location
North Wilts
The problem is that being unvaccinated and catching Covid tends to kill a lot of people, so they never get the chance to be immune to the next strain.

It depends on your definition of 'a lot'. If you mean 'about as many as a really bad flu epidemic, but not anywhere near as many as the very worst flu epidemic in modern history' then yes, you could say covid kills a lot. I would tend to disagree and say it kills within parameters we have weathered in the past without the current kerfuffle.

The survival rate for covid was somewhere around 99.7% pre vaccines. What you have to ask yourself is this - will taking a vaccine that degrades the ability to fend off the multiple versions of covid that will be around forever from now on reduce the future survival rate below 99.7%?

If it does then the vaccines will have killed many millions more than if you just let it rip.
 

SteveHants

Member
Livestock Farmer
It depends on your definition of 'a lot'. If you mean 'about as many as a really bad flu epidemic, but not anywhere near as many as the very worst flu epidemic in modern history' then yes, you could say covid kills a lot. I would tend to disagree and say it kills within parameters we have weathered in the past without the current kerfuffle.

The survival rate for covid was somewhere around 99.7% pre vaccines. What you have to ask yourself is this - will taking a vaccine that degrades the ability to fend off the multiple versions of covid that will be around forever from now on reduce the future survival rate below 99.7%?

If it does then the vaccines will have killed many millions more than if you just let it rip.

The survival rate for COVID as a mean for the whole population is utterly meaningless - it's 95% for the unvaccinated: https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2282

Its probably close to 100% for children and decreases as you get older, and this is before we even start to discuss the immunocompromised. We also don't know why some people are super susceptible to COVID in spite being fit and healthy and the long term implications of long COVID.

Edited to add - 5% of the UK population is still about 3,350,000. Not sure I'd want nearly 3 and a half million people dead of a disease that we have very chance of controlling given a bit of time to react on my hands.
 

CHAP Webinar - Innovative tools to overcome the challenges of Regen Ag

  • 291
  • 0
https%3A%2F%2Fcdn.evbuc.com%2Fimages%2F186160299%2F486662465563%2F1%2Foriginal.20211115-160823


Applying principles of regen ag can incur a range of on-farm challenges. Learn how innovative tools & machinery can help with these hurdles.

This event will be held online from 1pm to 2pm on Thursday 2nd December 2021 so please block it out in your diary.

About this event​

Intro
This...
Top