Sobering thought for the day

[graham99]

They trouble is that all these ideas get pinned on everyone. Sure, a live Daily updated maintenance and inspection feed to the NFU mutual insurance to ensure insurance cover. A good idea for a fleet of 18tonne trailers at 50+K. What about the old boy going down the road with his 885 and 5tonne trailer after a day’s work with the 10ft cut Claas matador? Of course he has to be responsible and comply with the law but he’ll be the bloke that loses out or gets caught for not having ticked those boxes.

i have thought for a long time if the tractor is on the road for more then 1 hour in a day.
it should be treated as a truck

 

[graham99]

you guys should have seen the wet dreams i had over the big class tractor when it came out,
i was thinking a fifth wheels and truck trailers.
then i woke up to the fact it would on the road more than in the field,
and that is why we have trucks

 

[Will 1594]

So, we seem to have accepted that vehicle checks should be done every day.

Now just arguing about how to record it.

Progress!

Go and look up an app called harvest yield. Can even do basic guidance

 

[Tarw Coch]

They trouble is that all these ideas get pinned on everyone. Sure, a live Daily updated maintenance and inspection feed to the NFU mutual insurance to ensure insurance cover. A good idea for a fleet of 18tonne trailers at 50+K. What about the old boy going down the road with his 885 and 5tonne trailer after a day’s work with the 10ft cut Claas matador? Of course he has to be responsible and comply with the law but he’ll be the bloke that loses out or gets caught for not having ticked those boxes.

The guy with the 885 and 5 ton trailer has got a better chance of being fully compliant with the law than the fleet of shiny new 18 tonners hooked to 50k tractors, he ain't going to be running over legal weight or speed and will most probably be doing a small fraction of the miles on the road which must reduce the chances of an accident.

 

[Tarw Coch]

i have thought for a long time if the tractor is on the road for more then 1 hour in a day.
it should be treated as a truck

It's part of the problem, tractors and trailers being used extensively for haulage with none of the safety measures of trucks. Now some on here are saying farmers tractors should all be inspected to the same level as trucks yet for many of us taking a tractor on the road is relatively infrequent and for only a small part of its use, obviously it must be road legal to go on the road but I believe current legislation is fine for such infrequent use.

A lot of these problems are being caused by farmers who buy tractors and trailers capable of being driven too fast pulling an overweight load and are now looking for ways to legalise what they are doing.

There are several options of what could be done, many here seem to want tractors/trailers inspected to the same standard as trucks no matter how infrequently they use the roads.
There are other options, if current laws were enforced more rigorously it would take a lot of these larger tractor/trailer combinations off the road yet wouldn't affect the vast majority of farmers.
Maybe a two tier standard is needed where tractors/trailers are allowed to run at higher speeds/weights subject to higher standards regarding braking/safety checks whilst those not needing to run such loads could carry on as now, obviously still needing to keep machinery maintained to comply with current legislation.
The other option for those wanting to shift lots of produce over longer distances would be to use chaser bins or similar to transfer loads onto trucks, the machinery is available to do this be it grains, roots or silage.

 

[milkloss]

The guy with the 885 and 5 ton trailer has got a better chance of being fully compliant with the law than the fleet of shiny new 18 tonners hooked to 50k tractors, he ain't going to be running over legal weight or speed and will most probably be doing a small fraction of the miles on the road which must reduce the chances of an accident.

If he were to be in an accident he may not be able to prove the brakes were adjusted or that he had read the manual if he had one. You seem comfortable that this type of farming would get a free ticket which is dangerous imo. They’ll just get caught up with all the tachos, daily logins with .gov, etc etc and give it up as a bad job.

 

[Tarw Coch]

If he were to be in an accident he may not be able to prove the brakes were adjusted or that he had read the manual if he had one. You seem comfortable that this type of farming would get a free ticket which is dangerous imo. They’ll just get caught up with all the tachos, daily logins with .gov, etc etc and give it up as a bad job.

Not sure how British law operates now, it used to be innocent until proven guilty, would it not be for the prosecution to prove his brakes were defective?
The only time the paper trail comes into play is in mitigation if the brakes were found to be defective but the owner could show that maintenance had be taking place.

 

[Cowabunga]

Not sure how British law operates now, it used to be innocent until proven guilty, would it not be for the prosecution to prove his brakes were defective?
The only time the paper trail comes into play is in mitigation if the brakes were found to be defective but the owner could show that maintenance had be taking place.

You would think so, but in today's blame culture it is unlikely that would be the case unless a very good defence team was used. Make no mistake, the HSE are out to get the employer regardless and their word is generally taken as the gospel. We all know how factual the gospels are.

While I do feel very sorry for the lad's family and friends, the other farm staff and the business owners and their families must not be forgotten either. Apart from the shock and grief they all must have felt, they are all under extreme stress right now as well.

 

[Frodo]

Would it be true to say that H&S go after the big firms because they know it will be a bigger payday - a bit like the inland revenue. Can see the fine on this one being a six figure sum, not saying they shouldn’t be prosecuted but as some have said they were going to find something wrong no matter how minute.

I think to suggest they prosecute for the cash is fairly synical. the government's cost in this trial will be far more than any fine. I am sure it is done to raise awareness and given this thread it remarkably effective, in a way that regrettably industry statistics are not.

 

[Tarw Coch]

You would think so, but in today's blame culture it is unlikely that would be the case unless a very good defence team was used. Make no mistake, the HSE are out to get the employer regardless and their word is generally taken as the gospel. We all know how factual the gospels are.
.

I have removed the quotes relating to the case that's started this thread as my comments are in general terms.
Whilst I agree that in the event of a serious accident HSE will be out to pin blame on someone and first in their line of sights will be the employer, could they actually get a prosecution on the basis that there wasn't a paper trail on maintenance if everything was working as it should?

 

[Honest john]

I have removed the quotes relating to the case that's started this thread as my comments are in general terms.
Whilst I agree that in the event of a serious accident HSE will be out to pin blame on someone and first in their line of sights will be the employer, could they actually get a prosecution on the basis that there wasn't a paper trail on maintenance if everything was working as it should?

Yes

 

[Honest john]

I am taking a close interest in this sad case.

Let's face it any of us could be in that court room but for luck.

I am looking at possibly taking my rigs to an HGV centre today.
Even though on the R series Deeres a light tap on brake peddle is all It takes.

On the 30 series it takes much more force on the peddles.

In this age could we not have a pop up on screen if brake peddles are not locked with the 7 pin connected !!

 

[snarling bee]

What if you forget to hook up the 7 pin?
Should be speed/gear related.

 

[Honest john]

What if you forget to hook up the 7 pin?
Should be speed/gear related.

Why in this age do the brakes not lock together above 20 K.
That could be a life saver.

 

[Tarw Coch]

Yes

What would the offence be?

 

[njneer]

I am taking a close interest in this sad case.

Let's face it any of us could be in that court room but for luck.

I am looking at possibly taking my rigs to an HGV centre today.
Even though on the R series Deeres a light tap on brake peddle is all It takes.

On the 30 series it takes much more force on the peddles.

In this age could we not have a pop up on screen if brake peddles are not locked with the 7 pin connected !!

New tractors as of 1st Jan 2018 under Moher Regulations must have a switch indicating pedals are locked and speed automatically restricted to 40kmh if left unlatched.

 

[snarling bee]

What would the offence be?

Not keeping adequate records.
No different to Nitrogen, pesticides or financial.

 

[Honest john]

New tractors as of 1st Jan 2018 under Moher Regulations must have a switch indicating pedals are locked and speed automatically restricted to 40kmh if left unlatched.

1st I heard of this. 40K is to high should be 20K or 30K IMO. But progress non the less.

 

[Daddy Pig]

Are air brakes really fail safe ? I think that if the yellow line is damaged you will have no trailer brakes.

 

[Bloders]

Are air brakes really fail safe ? I think that if the yellow line is damaged you will have no trailer brakes.

depends...
if you have spring brakes then yes they are safe.