Sobering thought for the day

kiwi pom

Member
Location
canterbury NZ
The logical thing to do is to use a similar tractor and trailer loaded with wheat and to test the stopping ability of the tractor only, and tractor and trailer braking , and with and without latching the pedals. This could be done on a level private road for safety reasons . If it could be proved that the tractor had serficiant stopping power at 40 k without the trailer brakes then that would rule out the trailer brakes fault. There seems to be HSE are only focusing on the trailer brakes and not considering the way the tractor was driven. Tragically a lad has lost his life but that should not absolve him of any responsibility if any .

As I understand it the case is not about what happened or who's to blame, the farming company has been charged with, failing to ensure the health and safety at work of their employees and failing to maintain to a sufficient standard, road going equipment.
 
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kiwi pom

Member
Location
canterbury NZ
Ok trailer nr 1 tested and failed.
Next question what is the law.

My mate Google should know.

At less than 32Kph your trailer should meet a min of 25% of GVW.
Over 32Kph your trailer should meet a min of 45% of GVW.

New regs coming out in May for fast tractors at 50% of GVW.

My own trailer made 48% on Hyd, but only 41% on Air.

The Parking brake passed but only just on Air.

So we have adjusted the brakes replaced an air coupling that was leaking a bit. To try again, this is on a commercial axial 15 ton trailer.

Its very easy to say but costly and difficult to do but can I suggest you concentrate not on what is law but what is 'best practice' for trailers and braking - as long as best practice is legal of course- better to set the standard than just try and keep up with the law.
Not always possible though I know.
Good to see that this case is helping people think about what they do.
 

simmy_bull

Member
Location
North Yorkshire
Axles are far more important to me than the argument of air or hydraulic brakes...commercial Axles are the way forward.. Our keenan is on 10 stud tandem Axles but there not commercial. You can still have a very good braking system with hydraulic brakes on commercial Axles.... There is something kind of special about air brakes though!:)
I’m no expert but I tend to agree I can’t see the difference between exactly the same brakes been applied either by oil or air pressure......
 

glasshouse

Member
Location
lothians
Not necessarily.
On smaller stuff the brakes are used too lightly due their size and potential power. This can possibly lead to glazing.
It's written about in Dr Andy Scarlet's trailer braking paper from a few years ago.
In most cases commercial axles are great though..
I have a 14 ton marshall trailer and the brakes were so sh!t we put lorry axles on after an axle broke.
And saved a heap of cash too.
 

Renaultman

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Darlington
Reading through this thread is making me think we need to implement a daily operator check sheet like we used to do when we ran HGV’s at the start of every day where we will use public highway with our machinery

We keep maintenance and service records of all machinery but no record of daily checks
It makes sense to me, and is good practice to have a wander round before you start the day. How many of us have had lads turn up in the field with soft tyres etc?
Ok trailer nr 1 tested and failed.
Next question what is the law.

My mate Google should know.

At less than 32Kph your trailer should meet a min of 25% of GVW.
Over 32Kph your trailer should meet a min of 45% of GVW.

New regs coming out in May for fast tractors at 50% of GVW.

My own trailer made 48% on Hyd, but only 41% on Air.

The Parking brake passed but only just on Air.

So we have adjusted the brakes replaced an air coupling that was leaking a bit. To try again, this is on a commercial axial 15 ton trailer.


We're all ranting and raving about commercial axles and brakes but the drum ones are notoriously hard to get through their test, to the point that if I was speccing a new artic trailer I would fit disc brakes. I know they have their problems but they work.
If you have just relined drum brakes they won't hit efficiency, if they have been on a while they harden and lose efficiency. If you have tipped OSR and it had got into the drums they will be useless till the oil is burnt or cleaned off.
I occasionally spend a week taking trailers to the test station and have found that everything must be set up to perfection and the brakes warmed before test. Ideally get them hot, very hot, and arrive at the test station with them warm but not hot as the drums will expand with excessive heat. It is basically a balancing act. Hence the reason for my preference for disc brakes. VOSA have a lot more access to test lanes now and I don't trust drums to pass a brake test, straight off the road much more than 70% of the time, with discs I would expect mid 90s, not withstanding faults in either system.
On another note, the company I work for have their own rolling road, as do a hell of a lot nowadays, I am fairly certain HSE would accept a printed brake test from one of these as above and beyond duty of care and the garage would be more willing to help you set them up correctly.
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
It makes sense to me, and is good practice to have a wander round before you start the day. How many of us have had lads turn up in the field with soft tyres etc?

we have discussed putting something in place at work this week, operators are on board with it and they see it as protecting them if they were involved in a RTA etc

plan is to create a Evernote book (we use it a lot for shared record keeping on the farm for RT etc) where every day any machine used on the road we create a daily check record via smart phone, time, author and date stamped that covers the basics like lights. brakes, steering and general condition checks and records any defects etc

we already have annual service records and instruction , parts books etc in evernote so this seems like a easy, no cost measure to implement that may one day help keep some out of prison if the worst ever happened
 

Renaultman

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Darlington
we have discussed putting something in place at work this week, operators are on board with it and they see it as protecting them if they were involved in a RTA etc

plan is to create a Evernote book (we use it a lot for shared record keeping on the farm for RT etc) where every day any machine used on the road we create a daily check record via smart phone, time, author and date stamped that covers the basics like lights. brakes, steering and general condition checks and records any defects etc

we already have annual service records and instruction , parts books etc in evernote so this seems like a easy, no cost measure to implement that may one day help keep some out of prison if the worst ever happened
I like the idea of instruction books in evernote, you will be more aware than many how much the DSA like records from your road haulage days,
 

Bury the Trash

Member
Mixed Farmer
all the high technical stuff. just a note(cleaned) big sticker/hand written note on the dash to remind to check lock brakes together before road use would be to low and simple i guess
 

graham99

Member
Why in this age do the brakes not lock together above 20 K.
That could be a life saver.
do modern tractors have equalisers on them.
having driven 2wdr tractors most of my life ,your brakes were never equal because you seemed to use the same brake for steering all the time.
which ment the pedle height was always different
 

graham99

Member
The problem lies with the driver as anyone who thinks they drive a tractor safely at 50k has seriously over estimated themselves.
it does depend on how the tractor is set up .
i seen 200 horse tractors, that couldn't pull a hen off its nest ,but fly down the road .
i have also seen 80 hp tractors pull the w.hole chook house up a mountain,but in top gear at 30 kph on the road were very wobberly because of all the water in the tyres.
if we are going to use tractor's as trucks,
.we are going to have to have the same rules as trucks
 

glasshouse

Member
Location
lothians
Talking about wandering round a trailer, i had a man arrive at the combine with 2 ton of gravelly soil stuck to the inside of the trailer, i had to go buy a shovel for him.
another 30 yr ago filled a trailer not realising there was a half load of rubble in it. drier intake didnt like it.
 

Cowabunga

Member
Location
Ceredigion,Wales
I would have thought that unless the tractor brakes were defective they would have the power to lock the wheels to cause a skid if applied sharply,

Unlikely with a loaded trailer behind on a grippy road and in a straight line. The tractor brakes would or should stop the outfit quite sharply but the weight transfer to the rear axle of the tractor, especially going down hill, should make a skid highly unlikely. If it was wet and greasy, yes, the likelihood would increase substantially that a skid could occur.
 

Cowabunga

Member
Location
Ceredigion,Wales
Reading the 1st post again it appears the trailer started snaking as soon as it went downhill, it then started bouncing up and down this could have been when the brakes were applied.
Presume the coroners inquest would have looked at speed etc.

Read on to subsequent posts and I describe a bouncing incident I witnessed on a main road a few years ago. The issue with bouncing is that it happens very suddenly and violently and the motion caused the brake pedal to be pressed harder on the end of the down curve, which tends to lock the wheels on the subsequent up curve of the bounce, only for the tractor to land the next time with near stationary wheels, which puts tremendous stress on the driveline and even more of an out of control bounce, completely out of control.
Easily preventable by using appropriate low speed.

There's no link between this and the current case as far as I know.
 

Cowabunga

Member
Location
Ceredigion,Wales
That limit seems to high though, you could still get in trouble with unlatched brakes at 38k

The salient point here is that unlatched brakes are needed, certainly up to 25kph on some jobs I do, plus, the most important point, there is to be a warning lamp, hopefully only lit above say 20kph, which warns the driver of unlatched brakes, ideally between 20kph and the 40kph top speed [for limiting unlatched brakes].
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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