Software model for nutrient flows on and off the farm

[Brisel]

Does such a programme exist here yet? I’m after something that I can input bought in nutrients, carbon sequestration in soil organic matter, grassland, hedges and trees then work out what leaves the farm as grain, straw, meat, milk etc as well as an attempt at NPK leaching etc.

The NZ government have this but it would need to be adapted for UK soils, climate, cropping and so on.

The idea is to build a tool that can be used on farm as part of a natural capital assessment and catchment based model.

 

[PSQ]

This seriously looks like the software version of 'a rod to beat your own back'.

I'm all in favour of sustainability and reducing environmental impact. But no matter how well we farm, this type of information will be used against us, there will never be a 'right' answer on the bottom of the screen, just more punitive legislation from condescending desk bound 'experts'.

 

[Brisel]

So why not get ahead of it by working out where you are gaining and where you can improve? Yes, it could also be used against you but why not be proactive? We are going to be beaten up with something like this anyway.

 

[PSQ]

So why not get ahead of it by working out where you are gaining and where you can improve? Yes, it could also be used against you but why not be proactive? We are going to be beaten up with something like this anyway.

We've been proactive with 'precision farming' for 21 years; with yield mapping, 'per hectare' soil mapping for pH / P / K and Mg and variable rate spreading, satellite NDVI mapping for 11 years, variable rate sowing etc
To be of any benefit the programme would need to correlate yield removed with SOYL maps (so far so good) and be subject to rules and limits imposed by those who live in ivory towers, and it still wouldn't do anything we aren't doing already.
Just 'jobs for the boys' and another PITA tick box exercise.

 

[wanton dwarf]

and be subject to rules and limits imposed made by those who live in ivory towers, and it still wouldn't do anything we aren't doing already. Just 'jobs for the boys' and another PITA tick box exercise.

Those people in Ivory towers have let all the nutrients we harvest in food be flushed down the loo and sent into the sea.

They got about 100+ years of sh@te to account for being dumped as pollution into the sea and potential soil fertiliser being wasted.

The reason they done it is because THEY don't want to pay for it, but they'll blame us for having to use mined minerals.

 

[Brisel]

We've been proactive with 'precision farming' for 21 years; with yield mapping, 'per hectare' soil mapping for pH / P / K and Mg and variable rate spreading, satellite NDVI mapping for 11 years, variable rate sowing etc
To be of any benefit the programme would need to correlate yield removed with SOYL maps (so far so good) and be subject to rules and limits imposed by those who live in ivory towers, and it still wouldn't do anything we aren't doing already.
Just 'jobs for the boys' and another PITA tick box exercise.

What I’m thinking of wouldn’t need the detail you have, just farm level inputs and outputs. The plant nutrients in an out is fairly easy. It’s the modelling for leaching, run off and carbon that is more tricky. The Environment Agency will develop tools to work out leaching and run off in the future. I’m looking at a farmer and local area basis like Entrade are seeking for the Poole Harbour catchment.

Better to be farmer and cluster level led than governmental/NGO broad brush restrictions. It’s trying to monetise public goods first IMO.

 

[PSQ]

Ah, OK, from looking at https://www.entrade.co.uk it's a tool to make farmers complicit with the GREENWASHING of corporate environmental pollution. We trade carbon so they can carry on using the corporate jet for a golfing weekend, and Emma Thompson can 'offset' her flight over from LA to lecture the Extinction Rebellion lemmings. The 'green agenda' is being weaponised into a marketing ploy to play the public like a deck of cards.

Attempting to balance a farms carbon footprint against diesel and fertiliser consumption is one thing, salving corporate 'public relations problems' by facilitating their continued CO2 production and 'greenwashing' is quite another thing: It's dishonest, and it should be criminalised.

Take for example Tesco playing the 'green' card, jumping into the 'meat substitutes' market and levering every bit of 'good will' via 'green agenda' advertising to increase market share, while being one of the UK leading sources of both plastic packaging waste and food waste because of their demands on suppliers. If the public somehow had the wool lifted from their eyes Tesco wouldn't last a month. Yet the media isn't calling this farce out, the media is actively facilitating Tesco's continued carbon and plastic use. Make them accountable, tax them £5 for every Kg of plastic packaging and we'd see massive environmental change in a month. Instead we've got government legislating for city spivs to get rich from 'trading carbon'.

In terms of reducing the impact of climate change, it's like applying a sticking plaster to a gunshot wound. It's a farce.



From the EnTrade website:

We offer farmers a new way to make money by selling environmental credits from their land . Becoming an EnTrade farmer provides you with three key benefits:

1. Create new, reliable income streams
2. Get paid on time
3. Get paid at commercially viable rates to look after nature

We design our online marketplaces to make it easy for farmers to make bids and see if the price they want is likely to be paid. Since July 2016, we have run over 30 marketplaces and set up contracts for farmers that are worth more than £3.4 million. The more that farmers register interest, then the more demand there will be from buyers across the country. It’s quick, easy and free to sign-up.

 

[Chae1]

The Scottish agricultural college have a programme called Agrecalc. I've used it to do carbon audits.

 

[cb387]

Don’t let RT know. They’ll want to add it to their list

 

[Boysground]

Don’t let RT know. They’ll want to add it to their list

I was thinking that if @Brisel added Mass Balance to the list of requirements Red Tractor would write the software for him

Bg

 

[Brisel]

I understand your scepticism @PSQ Who is really capturing the value in this? The brokers - Entrade in my example. They will just throw us enough crumbs to keep us interested unless we take the initiative. Net polluters like a car manufacturer are never going to be neutral without having to pay for offsetting measures. We have what they need.

Call it whatever you like, but I see it as an opportunity, not a threat (yet).

 

[Chris F]

Ah, OK, from looking at https://www.entrade.co.uk it's a tool to make farmers complicit with the GREENWASHING of corporate environmental pollution. We trade carbon so they can carry on using the corporate jet for a golfing weekend, and Emma Thompson can 'offset' her flight over from LA to lecture the Extinction Rebellion lemmings. The 'green agenda' is being weaponised into a marketing ploy to play the public like a deck of cards.

Attempting to balance a farms carbon footprint against diesel and fertiliser consumption is one thing, salving corporate 'public relations problems' by facilitating their continued CO2 production and 'greenwashing' is quite another thing: It's dishonest, and it should be criminalised.

Take for example Tesco playing the 'green' card, jumping into the 'meat substitutes' market and levering every bit of 'good will' via 'green agenda' advertising to increase market share, while being one of the UK leading sources of both plastic packaging waste and food waste because of their demands on suppliers. If the public somehow had the wool lifted from their eyes Tesco wouldn't last a month. Yet the media isn't calling this farce out, the media is actively facilitating Tesco's continued carbon and plastic use. Make them accountable, tax them £5 for every Kg of plastic packaging and we'd see massive environmental change in a month. Instead we've got government legislating for city spivs to get rich from 'trading carbon'.

In terms of reducing the impact of climate change, it's like applying a sticking plaster to a gunshot wound. It's a farce.



From the EnTrade website:

We offer farmers a new way to make money by selling environmental credits from their land . Becoming an EnTrade farmer provides you with three key benefits:

1. Create new, reliable income streams
2. Get paid on time
3. Get paid at commercially viable rates to look after nature

We design our online marketplaces to make it easy for farmers to make bids and see if the price they want is likely to be paid. Since July 2016, we have run over 30 marketplaces and set up contracts for farmers that are worth more than £3.4 million. The more that farmers register interest, then the more demand there will be from buyers across the country. It’s quick, easy and free to sign-up.

There will be a legal requirement for property developers to deliver net gain with the new environment bill. That is what this aims to service by the look of it. Its a bit double edged for those farmers that do sell land, as its going to be worth less than before. Certainly the developers won't be losing out. Those farmers not selling land it is an opportunity I would say.

 

[Luke Cropwalker]

In a complex P&K situation I drew up my own spreadsheet. The beauty is that you can input and change your own values.