Soil essentials net

[matttargett4]

hi,

Sorry if this has been covered before, just seen an ad banner for soil essentials mobile phone rtk correction signal, I have 3 tractors with Trimble kit capable of running this correction signal but have tried a data sim from agco on one and were so disappointed that we run rangepoint instead. Rangepoint is £500 a yr ish the agco card was 1250, pass to pass the rangepoint is at least as good but does suffer drift over longer periods.
How will the soil essentials thing compare?

Cheers

Matt

 

[keith170]

good evening, where are you based to check for coverage for enet?

 

[GPS_Support_2014]

New Holland and Case IH dealers offer similar:

http://agriculture1.newholland.com/...ducts/correction-sources/plm-connect-rtk-cors

 

[Northern farmer]

I don't know your gear but it is rubbish to claim rangepoint better than RTK. Perhaps you didn't, perhaps you had problems with cellular coverage? RTK gives better pass-to-pass accuracy and no drift. Obviously a good correction signal does not help if it is not delivered reliably.

Ridiculously expensive that AGCO service anyway, you would pay a private RTK base in less than two years (less expensive than rangepoint).

I assume you have a dual frequeacy multi-constellation receiver (just guessing if the receiver is rangepoint capable), work at an acceptable distance from the base. Then it is all about reliable transport of the RTK correction signal.

 

[matttargett4]

Sorry been away for a while, had a few pm's but nobody has really mentioned what the cost of any of these signals are and what they claim to do.

My two beefs with rangepoint are the stability of the signal working under trees and the cost, can anybody offer me a benifit in either of these? I get that the rtk won't drift and if it cost same as rangepoint I'd be happy to give it a try.

Cheers

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

Sorry been away for a while, had a few pm's but nobody has really mentioned what the cost of any of these signals are and what they claim to do.

My two beefs with rangepoint are the stability of the signal working under trees and the cost, can anybody offer me a benifit in either of these? I get that the rtk won't drift and if it cost same as rangepoint I'd be happy to give it a try.

Cheers

Have you had quotes to see how much it will take to upgrade/unlock each receiver to RTK? With three tractors all using RTK you should be able to negotiate a decent price for that and also the RTK sub. I'd expect you should be able to get each tractor for not more than £600 per year.

The alternative would be to buy your own RTK base - even a small portable base, depends how far away from the base you need to work / travel as there will be a distance limitation with the radio. The payback on a portable base vs paying a sub for correction with three machine should be less than 3 years.

 

[matttargett4]

Sorry,

Maybe I wasn't clear, all three tractors are unlocked to rtk however don't have radios to be able to run from my own base, this is as I understand anyway, one of the three have run the ag of mobile signal so it definitely works.

I like the idea of my own base but I hate the cycle you get into where you pay hot money for tech then in three yrs you get told it's junk and need to start again so if I subscribe updates are included and when the tractor is replaced all kit goes and gets replaced in the deal so I try to stay ahead a bit.

Apart from the soil essentials net who else are my mainstream options?

 

[Robt]

You have your own base but bought three kits that couldn’t run off it? I must have read that wrong
Edit, yes I have!
Radio is current. Some of our bases have been in use for 10 years and still going strong

 

[Slick]

With your displays RTK unlocked you could try Centerpoint Fast, I think they are knocking it out for about £600 a year.

 

[matttargett4]

So presumably I can by a base station for 6k? Are the results better than the mobile signal?

 

[matttargett4]

Just looking quickly is centre point fast Trimble centre point rtx? Unless I'm mistaken basically it is the same rangepoint in that it's a satellite correction signal and gives better accuracy at a bit more cost and needing an rtk unlock?

 

[Slick]

Just looking quickly is centre point fast Trimble centre point rtx? Unless I'm mistaken basically it is the same rangepoint in that it's a satellite correction signal and gives better accuracy at a bit more cost and needing an rtk unlock?

Yes, it's an improved version, much faster convergance and a degree of repeatability.
I think they do 3, 10 and 30 day demo subscriptions so you can try it out.

 

[Northern farmer]

...

I like the idea of my own base but I hate the cycle you get into where you pay hot money for tech then in three yrs you get told it's junk and need to start again so if I subscribe updates are included and when the tractor is replaced all kit goes and gets replaced in the deal so I try to stay ahead a bit.

Setting up a private base is not that difficult. Of course companies who sell these products prefer to give that impression. Some knowledge is needed but forums like this are happy to provide all the necessary support for free.

The base does not get outdated any faster than your receivers. I don't have experience on many brands but I guess all work on NTRIP (cellular RTK), radio is not always compatible? Not difficult to pick up new gear that work with your "old" private base.

So presumably I can by a base station for 6k? Are the results better than the mobile signal?

If you purchase the complete base with a high power radio, including installation on a mast, I guess the price could be even higher. Mine did not cost that much and it has connectivity via radio as well as cellular NTRIP.

One cannot claim either private base or mobile signal being better over the other. Most often a private base is closer to your fields and the RTK correction signal works better. Depends on the farm, a single base might not cover all the fields where subscription from a commercial network makes sense.

Radio connectivity may become blocked by hills etc. I hear the mobile signal in the UK may not be reliable either. The better option depends on local conditions.

Note that even Trimble does not claim centre point rtx being better (equally accurate) as RTK, just better than rangepoint. Might still fulfil your expectations.

I'm a bit puzzled about the starting point, issues with stability when working under trees. It would be important to know if trees (to the south) are blocking the rangepoint signal as it comes from a geo-stationary satellite (doesn't it?) or if the trees block visibility to too many of the GPS/GLONAS satellites (are your receivers dual constellation capable, I assume they are). If the issue is trees blocking satellite signals, then RTK or centerpoint may not be anything significantly better.

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

I'd properly investigate purchasing your own (portable) base. Paying ongoing RTK correction fees for three machines after 5 years is going to cost you the thick end of £9,000 and you wont have any hardware to show for it at the end. At least if you've got your own base it will still be worth something (probably a decent amount) after 5 years...

As said the technology is pretty mature, the biggest news/change is multi-constellation receivers now that the Europeans and Chinese have their own navigation satellite constellations. Once upon a time it was good enough (and it still is to be frank) to have dual-constellation GPS and GLONASS unit. But going forward I would definitely check that a receiver is capable or can easily be upgraded to receive GPS, GLONASS and Galileo and BeiDou constellations with triple frequency L1, L2 and L5 reception. That will future proof your base investment for at least 10 years if not more.

A permanent base more or less works the same way as a portable base - the biggest differences is that the coverage from base is larger (due to a higher power licensed radio) and the components that make up the base are separate: antenna sits on its own, connected to a receiver, which is then connected to a high power radio. Then to get the best coverage you need a mast (or tall building) to put the UHF antenna on. This all adds a lot of cost. Probably near enough £10,000 more than a simple portable unit to get this supplied and installed for you. Its a real long-term chunkier bit of infrastructure.

There are ways of making a portable base more or less like a permanent base. I guess robt might chip in with some of the horror stories he has seen, but this is actually a pretty good way, done properly, of getting a better solution for a more modest outlay.