Soil test for health

[TelesnaAg]

I think looking at just OM level..is maybe a bit flawed as its one factor...indicators are normally a multiple..

Are there test available for fungi etc? My soil seems to be improving - especially 2-3 inches down..instead of slop it's friable...but i'd bet the OM levels are not changed that much?

Can you see micro zonal fungi under a microscope?

Ant....

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I think looking at just OM level..is maybe a bit flawed as its one factor...indicators are normally a multiple..

Are there test available for fungi etc? My soil seems to be improving - especially 2-3 inches down..instead of slop it's friable...but i'd bet the OM levels are not changed that much?

Can you see micro zonal fungi under a microscope?

Ant....

Just pull some plants/weeds out and wash the roots clean in some water- it will float on the surface. Weeds especially form a great relationship with fungi - that's what makes them so 'good'...
But you should see white fluff on the surface, anyway.

 

[TelesnaAg]

Be nice if you could get it in a quantifiable term so you can track your increases / decreases.

Ant...

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Be nice if you could get it in a quantifiable term so you can track your increases / decreases.

Ant...

Yes, unfortunately it's a bit like measuring a relationship..
I think you will be on the right track, main thing of course is to keep all the stuff in employment- keep the ground growing!

 

[Farmersdaughter]

Have been thinking about this as well. Would be great to have a good measure of soil health. Have seen this company in US, https://www.tracegenomics.com, doing DNA tests of soil to show what is there. It seems rather expensive and in US but as DNA technology gets better hopefully will get cheaper and widely available. Have seen tests for human micobiome at about £65, which is quite similar, wondered if enough farmers want soil micobiome measured they could do soil.

Soil Health Report
$159 Introductory Price!
Evaluate fields for beneficial microbes and ecological indicators of soil health and receive recommendations on soil health improvement strategies.

Indicators include:
Oxygen status, Fungal and bacterial diversity, Fungal-to-bacterial ratio, Arbuscular Mycorrhizal Fungi (AMF), and Plant growth promoting bacteria (PGPB).

 

[TelesnaAg]

Have been thinking about this as well. Would be great to have a good measure of soil health. Have seen this company in US, https://www.tracegenomics.com, doing DNA tests of soil to show what is there. It seems rather expensive and in US but as DNA technology gets better hopefully will get cheaper and widely available. Have seen tests for human micobiome at about £65, which is quite similar, wondered if enough farmers want soil micobiome measured they could do soil.

Soil Health Report
$159 Introductory Price!
Evaluate fields for beneficial microbes and ecological indicators of soil health and receive recommendations on soil health improvement strategies.

Indicators include:
Oxygen status, Fungal and bacterial diversity, Fungal-to-bacterial ratio, Arbuscular Mycorrhizal Fungi (AMF), and Plant growth promoting bacteria (PGPB).

This is more like what i am after...me looking at my dirt after having different cover crops etc and trials is hopeless...what if i have been drinking scotch?....the sure the results will not be accurate...

I do lots of digging and am seeing a change..problems is i don't know what is actually technically changing...its getting better...but if i dig next year and can't tell the difference do i change tact? based on real evidence.

Ant...

 

[Simon C]

Get a microscope and do more looking. The more fungi you see, the better. The more protozoa you see, even more better.

Or get a microbiology report from a Soil Food Web lab, there is one in Australia somewhere.

Or get a PLFA microbiology test done (Google it),no one doing them in UK, don't know about Australia, but could possibly send a sample to US.

Or get some mycorrhizal root association tests done, Plant Works do them for not much money, I have done loads of these and it is very interesting.

 

[Farmer Roy]

also, don't discount visual or "gut" feelings . . .
the smell, structure, water infiltration, residue decomposing, the macro soil biology are all pretty good indications that the micro are at work
but yes, quick easy analytical testing would be nice

 

[yellow belly]

when the top foot of soil weighs over 2000 tonnes per acre what we can add as a farmer is a small percentage of the total traditional soil science required analysis and the conclusion from the soil science lecturer in 1981 was that the farmers could do little to change the soil

at the time the farm at home used large amounts of manure chicken pig and cattle after a grass ley

30 years of combineable crops the soil analysis has change very little but anecdotley the soil changed a lot
less worms because of ploughing and deep cultivateing even though in the 1980s burning straw was the norm the muck return was more beneficial

now with notill the worm number are increasing

but we have wetter summers than in the 1980s about 2 inches on average so the worms are in the top few inches compared to summers with worms below plough depth

the gut feel on a cultivated field in the spring early summer can can be better than a notill field with more worms but after a rain in august the worm and beetle activity on a notill field is greater measuring it is difficult to nail

 

[TelesnaAg]

when the top foot of soil weighs over 2000 tonnes per acre what we can add as a farmer is a small percentage of the total traditional soil science required analysis and the conclusion from the soil science lecturer in 1981 was that the farmers could do little to change the soil

at the time the farm at home used large amounts of manure chicken pig and cattle after a grass ley

30 years of combineable crops the soil analysis has change very little but anecdotley the soil changed a lot
less worms because of ploughing and deep cultivateing even though in the 1980s burning straw was the norm the muck return was more beneficial

now with notill the worm number are increasing

but we have wetter summers than in the 1980s about 2 inches on average so the worms are in the top few inches compared to summers with worms below plough depth

the gut feel on a cultivated field in the spring early summer can can be better than a notill field with more worms but after a rain in august the worm and beetle activity on a notill field is greater measuring it is difficult to nail

Sorry...to me thats all bs...

Ant...

 

[Brisel]

I thought I'd bump this thread back up.

My boss, who is not a farmer but is fascinated with wildlife of all shapes & sizes, has asked me to come up with a way of measuring soil health. 4 years ago, before starting strip till from a "traditional" mixture of non inversion tillage and rotational ploughing I had every field tested for organic matter using the crude but simple Loss On Ignition test. This is not enough & will give highly variable results depending on the sampling method, time of year and even time of day it is done. I'm also on chalk soils which will add at least 1% to the results due to reduction of the CaCO3 during the second oven phase of the test.

Counting earthworms sounds like a more reliable barometer but is there a quick way of doing this? Digging up spadeful and counting them is slow. Jackie Stroud's 30 minute test she was asking via the NFU involves digging and counting but frankly I took me 30 minutes to do one spadeful. I'd like to be able to pour something on the surface that would flush them to the top so in the same amount of time I could do several sample points, not just one.

I appreciate that this is a big question and I should be measuring bacteria, fungi, worms, SOC etc etc too. @cows r us was asking something similar recently.

 

[cows r us]

I thought I'd bump this thread back up.

My boss, who is not a farmer but is fascinated with wildlife of all shapes & sizes, has asked me to come up with a way of measuring soil health. 4 years ago, before starting strip till from a "traditional" mixture of non inversion tillage and rotational ploughing I had every field tested for organic matter using the crude but simple Loss On Ignition test. This is not enough & will give highly variable results depending on the sampling method, time of year and even time of day it is done. I'm also on chalk soils which will add at least 1% to the results due to reduction of the CaCO3 during the second oven phase of the test.

Counting earthworms sounds like a more reliable barometer but is there a quick way of doing this? Digging up spadeful and counting them is slow. Jackie Stroud's 30 minute test she was asking via the NFU involves digging and counting but frankly I took me 30 minutes to do one spadeful. I'd like to be able to pour something on the surface that would flush them to the top so in the same amount of time I could do several sample points, not just one.

I appreciate that this is a big question and I should be measuring bacteria, fungi, worms, SOC etc etc too. @cows r us was asking something similar recently.

I have heard of farmers putting a high salt solution on the ground to get leather jackets to the surface to see if they have a problem. Don't know if it would work with worms as well.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Pigtails in the soil with a decent electric fence unit brings them out

 

[ShooTa]

@Brisel https://www.ahdb.org.uk/knowledge-library/how-to-count-earthworms

 

[Brisel]

@Brisel https://www.ahdb.org.uk/knowledge-library/how-to-count-earthworms

Thanks. Still the laborious way! Never mind.

 

[dontknowanything]

I thought I'd bump this thread back up.

My boss, who is not a farmer but is fascinated with wildlife of all shapes & sizes, has asked me to come up with a way of measuring soil health. 4 years ago, before starting strip till from a "traditional" mixture of non inversion tillage and rotational ploughing I had every field tested for organic matter using the crude but simple Loss On Ignition test. This is not enough & will give highly variable results depending on the sampling method, time of year and even time of day it is done. I'm also on chalk soils which will add at least 1% to the results due to reduction of the CaCO3 during the second oven phase of the test.

Counting earthworms sounds like a more reliable barometer but is there a quick way of doing this? Digging up spadeful and counting them is slow. Jackie Stroud's 30 minute test she was asking via the NFU involves digging and counting but frankly I took me 30 minutes to do one spadeful. I'd like to be able to pour something on the surface that would flush them to the top so in the same amount of time I could do several sample points, not just one.

I appreciate that this is a big question and I should be measuring bacteria, fungi, worms, SOC etc etc too. @cows r us was asking something similar recently.

That’s not true about the CaCO3 unless your lab is doing it wrong

http://www.nrm.uk.com/files/documen...tter_content_of_soils_by_Loss_on_Ignition.pdf

 

[SilliamWhale]

I thought I'd bump this thread back up.

My boss, who is not a farmer but is fascinated with wildlife of all shapes & sizes, has asked me to come up with a way of measuring soil health. 4 years ago, before starting strip till from a "traditional" mixture of non inversion tillage and rotational ploughing I had every field tested for organic matter using the crude but simple Loss On Ignition test. This is not enough & will give highly variable results depending on the sampling method, time of year and even time of day it is done. I'm also on chalk soils which will add at least 1% to the results due to reduction of the CaCO3 during the second oven phase of the test.

Counting earthworms sounds like a more reliable barometer but is there a quick way of doing this? Digging up spadeful and counting them is slow. Jackie Stroud's 30 minute test she was asking via the NFU involves digging and counting but frankly I took me 30 minutes to do one spadeful. I'd like to be able to pour something on the surface that would flush them to the top so in the same amount of time I could do several sample points, not just one.

I appreciate that this is a big question and I should be measuring bacteria, fungi, worms, SOC etc etc too. @cows r us was asking something similar recently.

Why don't you ask him for a pair of his or his wifes underpants to bury?

 

[Suffolk Serf]

I thought I'd bump this thread back up.

My boss, who is not a farmer but is fascinated with wildlife of all shapes & sizes, has asked me to come up with a way of measuring soil health. 4 years ago, before starting strip till from a "traditional" mixture of non inversion tillage and rotational ploughing I had every field tested for organic matter using the crude but simple Loss On Ignition test. This is not enough & will give highly variable results depending on the sampling method, time of year and even time of day it is done. I'm also on chalk soils which will add at least 1% to the results due to reduction of the CaCO3 during the second oven phase of the test.

Counting earthworms sounds like a more reliable barometer but is there a quick way of doing this? Digging up spadeful and counting them is slow. Jackie Stroud's 30 minute test she was asking via the NFU involves digging and counting but frankly I took me 30 minutes to do one spadeful. I'd like to be able to pour something on the surface that would flush them to the top so in the same amount of time I could do several sample points, not just one.

I appreciate that this is a big question and I should be measuring bacteria, fungi, worms, SOC etc etc too. @cows r us was asking something similar recently.

A worm count here is ridiculously fast, dig up a spade of soil and see if you can find any at all. Usually there are none, it really is quite shocking.

 

[martian]

Why don't you ask him for a pair of his or his wifes underpants to bury?

That only really tells you how much N is hanging around your soil. Cotton pants are very Carbon heavy and need a lot of N to break them down. It's still worth asking though...

 

[SilliamWhale]

That only really tells you how much N is hanging around your soil. Cotton pants are very Carbon heavy and need a lot of N to break them down. It's still worth asking though...

What about silken thongs?