Solar panel failure

[cosmagedon]

We've got a 50kw solar system fitted on a shed roof thats about 4 or 5 years old now. We've had issues with the power tripping in heavy rain and traced it to a bank of the panels, we've currently had to switch off over half the panels until it's repaired.

When we had them installed we specifically requested LG panels but we can't find any identification or markings on them to help with getting replacements. The company that fitted them have gone bust shortly after and have no details of what they fitted nor can they remember. Most of the panels are showing signs of delamination under the surface as you can see in the pictures.

Can anyone id the panels and help with any info as to why they are bubbling like this?

 

[Exfarmer]

We have seen delamination but I suspect your issues are far more likely to be the MC4 connectors.
I would put money on the the connectors were not tagged up underneath the panels as they should have been.
If you can have a look up thr gulleys beneath the panels and see if the connectors have dropped in to them

 

[Kidds]

There is a barcode in one of the pics, have you scanned that with your smartphone or typed the numbers into Google?
Might give you some idea.

 

[cosmagedon]

We have seen delamination but I suspect your issues are far more likely to be the MC4 connectors.
I would put money on the the connectors were not tagged up underneath the panels as they should have been.
If you can have a look up thr gulleys beneath the panels and see if the connectors have dropped in to them

Ok thanks, we will have a look and check them

 

[cosmagedon]

There is a barcode in one of the pics, have you scanned that with your smartphone or typed the numbers into Google?
Might give you some idea.

Yea, tried the number in Google and it comes up with nothing. We've also removed one panel to check the underside and there's nothing else on it

 

[Exfarmer]

Must say they are the worst I have ever seen if they are only 4-5 years old. Did they givew you no paperwork at all?

 

[cosmagedon]

Must say they are the worst I have ever seen if they are only 4-5 years old. Did they givew you no paperwork at all?

I'm not sure, i will have to ask my uncle but I'm assuming nothing that can help to identify them.

 

[cosmagedon]

Must say they are the worst I have ever seen if they are only 4-5 years old. Did they givew you no paperwork at all?

My uncle just confirmed it's more like 6 years, but I wasn't far out.

Definitely no paperwork or any markings on any panel other than that barcode that leads to nothing.

 

[Exfarmer]

My uncle just confirmed it's more like 6 years, but I wasn't far out.

Definitely no paperwork or any markings on any panel other than that barcode that leads to nothing.

I am assuming that you are claiming FITs in which case I would think that if the panels have failed, you will have to bite the bullet and replace them. This scenario is far too common in the industry , where long term guarantees are offered but impossible to enforce as the retailer has gone bust. The industry went through a major upheaval after the collapse of the FIT regime and not many of the original companies are still about

 

[Half Pipe]

No chance any of the cardboard packaging was kept for workshop duties as it was good size for laying under a tractor or the like. Doubtful it survive 6yr tho

 

[cosmagedon]

Yes claiming fit so it's needs sorting, does the delamination effect the panels much?

Unfortunately nothing left from when they were fitted.

 

[Exfarmer]

Yes claiming fit so it's needs sorting, does the delamination effect the panels much?

Unfortunately nothing left from when they were fitted.

Does delamination affect the panels, who knows? But if it is the cause of insulation issues , most certainly.

 

[br jones]

California’s solar panel pile mounts up at landfill sites​

There are fears that dumping solar panels in landfill will contaminate groundwater with toxic metals
SCOTT STRAZZANTE/SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE/GETTY IMAGES
Keiran Southern
, Los Angeles
Thursday July 21 2022, 4.00pm, The Times

Millions of solar panels in California risk being dumped on landfill sites as they reach the end of their life cycles.

Over the past two decades, more than 1.3 million homeowners and builders took advantage of state incentives to install the panels on their rooftops.

However, they have a lifespan of 25-30 years and defunct ones are starting to pile up in dumps, raising fears they will contaminate groundwater with toxic metals such as lead, selenium and cadmium.

Sam Vanderhoof, a solar industry expert and chief executive of Recycle PV Solar, told the Los Angeles Times it estimated only one in ten panels were recycled because the process is expensive and time-consuming.

It costs about $20 to $30 to recycle a panel compared with $1 to $2 to send it to a landfill, according to figures from the National Renewable Energy Laboratory. “The industry is supposed to be green,” Vanderhoof said. “But in reality, it’s all about the money.”

ADVERTISEMENT​

California, with abundant all-year sunshine, was a pioneer in the adoption of solar power. In 2006 it introduced the California Solar Initiative which granted $3.3 billion in subsidies for installing panels on rooftops.
While the scheme was considered a success, officials are now grappling with how to safely dispose of the panels.
Serasu Duran, assistant professor at the University of Calgary’s Haskayne School of Business in Canada, warned in an academic paper last year that the industry was “woefully unprepared for the deluge of waste that is likely to come”.
The issue is not limited to California — a solar panel was installed every 60 seconds last year in the US, according to the Solar Energy Industries Association.

SPONSORED​

Duran told the LA Times: “While all the focus has been on building this renewable capacity, not much consideration has been put on the end of life of these technologies.”

 

[Exfarmer]

California’s solar panel pile mounts up at landfill sites​

There are fears that dumping solar panels in landfill will contaminate groundwater with toxic metals
SCOTT STRAZZANTE/SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE/GETTY IMAGES
Keiran Southern
, Los Angeles
Thursday July 21 2022, 4.00pm, The Times

Millions of solar panels in California risk being dumped on landfill sites as they reach the end of their life cycles.

Over the past two decades, more than 1.3 million homeowners and builders took advantage of state incentives to install the panels on their rooftops.

However, they have a lifespan of 25-30 years and defunct ones are starting to pile up in dumps, raising fears they will contaminate groundwater with toxic metals such as lead, selenium and cadmium.

Sam Vanderhoof, a solar industry expert and chief executive of Recycle PV Solar, told the Los Angeles Times it estimated only one in ten panels were recycled because the process is expensive and time-consuming.

It costs about $20 to $30 to recycle a panel compared with $1 to $2 to send it to a landfill, according to figures from the National Renewable Energy Laboratory. “The industry is supposed to be green,” Vanderhoof said. “But in reality, it’s all about the money.”

ADVERTISEMENT​

California, with abundant all-year sunshine, was a pioneer in the adoption of solar power. In 2006 it introduced the California Solar Initiative which granted $3.3 billion in subsidies for installing panels on rooftops.
While the scheme was considered a success, officials are now grappling with how to safely dispose of the panels.
Serasu Duran, assistant professor at the University of Calgary’s Haskayne School of Business in Canada, warned in an academic paper last year that the industry was “woefully unprepared for the deluge of waste that is likely to come”.
The issue is not limited to California — a solar panel was installed every 60 seconds last year in the US, according to the Solar Energy Industries Association.

SPONSORED​

Duran told the LA Times: “While all the focus has been on building this renewable capacity, not much consideration has been put on the end of life of these technologies.”

It is complete bull sh*t story, a solar panel is composed of glass and aluminium with a trace quantity of more precious metals. Putting the panels through something similar to a rock crusher will instanly remove all the glass leaving the metal residue to be sent to smelters.
I have no doubt many households did send panels to landfill when they upgraded systems since modern panels can give 3-4 times the output than those from the 90’s and with air con running in most houses in the US when the sun is shining they are an ideal match. However there is absolutely no need for it and I can only guess due to the sheer laziness of the house owner and sadly an attitude which affects so many in the UK when they just dump their home improvement waste in the neighbouring farmers gate way

 

[MrNoo]

Huge market for used panels, I wished I had taken more broken ones from the farm here, could have sold them all next day!
And they work fine, I coated some in epoxy which has no effect re production and have left 4 broken as is to see how long they last! Have plenty of spares any road.

 

[Aceface]

Re the land fill story, panels are all recyclable, aluminium and glass make up nearly all the weight of each panal and has a value as scrap. Even the silica wafers can be recycled to be recrystalised in new panels. However, in the development stage, some early panels from the sixties and seventies ( it is a mature technology now, if you went to school in the late seventies or early eighties chances are you had a calculator or watch with this tech in it) did feature lead solder, this was soon replaced when mass production took off with a non toxic alternative. indeed, there may even be trace amounts of silver in some panel's electrical connections.
As for the identification of your instillation, to register for the feed in tariff, only approved panels and inverters were allowed (from a list of manufactuers whose products were of a certain standard and iirc, this list called the "Tier 0ne Products". It was to prevent inferior cheap kit flooding the market from China etc and causing problems down the road. Somewhere in your paper work for the FIT application, there is probably a paper trail to whose panels these are. Panels should long warranties.

 

[Exfarmer]

Re the land fill story, panels are all recyclable, aluminium and glass make up nearly all the weight of each panal and has a value as scrap. Even the silica wafers can be recycled to be recrystalised in new panels. However, in the development stage, some early panels from the sixties and seventies ( it is a mature technology now, if you went to school in the late seventies or early eighties chances are you had a calculator or watch with this tech in it) did feature lead solder, this was soon replaced when mass production took off with a non toxic alternative. indeed, there may even be trace amounts of silver in some panel's electrical connections.
As for the identification of your instillation, to register for the feed in tariff, only approved panels and inverters were allowed (from a list of manufactuers whose products were of a certain standard and iirc, this list called the "Tier 0ne Products". It was to prevent inferior cheap kit flooding the market from China etc and causing problems down the road. Somewhere in your paper work for the FIT application, there is probably a paper trail to whose panels these are. Panels should long warranties.

The problem is that these warranties are worth paper they are written on. We have a lot of Canadian Upsolar panels sold by a German owned company through a British office . The warranty backed by Swiss Rey.
So now Upsolar have been taken over by the Chinese and the panel warranty stands. However to claim on it, since they have now closed all European offices the panels must be returned to Shanghai for inspection before any will be replaced. Fancy your chances?

 

[Binc]

think the barcode is specific serial number for that panel but there will be a manufactures label (ratings etc) on the back

Also if its just one panel, removing it from the string is unlikely to cause problems -the inverter will have an acceptable range of voltage and current per string and you can calculate if removing one panel is going to fall outside of this range as a short term solution so that the other panels can continue to work?

 

[br jones]

2The dirty secret of China’s clean energy ambition: millions of wind turbines and solar panels are near retirement age | South China Morning Post https://www.scmp.com/business/artic...-dirty-side-beijing-faces-recycling-challenge

 

[Solarfarmer]

My money here would be damaged MC4 connectors or possibly string cable damage.

It's worth giving them a thorough inspection.

Visually I would say some of my panels look like the same as yours (panel worm!)

I have never had to change any of the panels because of this.

Every time the issue is a dodgy string connector or damage to the string cable usually from poor workmanship when the system was built. I've probably changed about 50 of these on the array.

JD