solar panels & battery storage

[Exfarmer]

It is to the south east of the summer house which in turn is south of my house

 

[akaPABLO01]

It is to the south east of the summer house which in turn is south of my house

What month do you shut the system down and for how long over the winter do you shut it down for e.g 4 months?

 

[Exfarmer]

What month do you shut the system down and for how long over the winter do you shut it down for e.g 4 months?

I keep it running as long as I can , however the weather in November generally means we have to give up swimming then.
I have one year kep going into January but it was very mild that year, cannot remember which.
Generally the heat pump starts to struggle in mid to late October. It is normally high Relative Humidity combined with temperatures below 8 degrees which result in a rapid frosting of the radiator.
It can work in far lower temperatures provided humidity is low, so if the barometer is high generally it works well but a low barometer and its associated cloudy damp conditions soon put an end to the heat.
We rarely turn the pool on till mid April, starting from a cold pool takes some heating, even if the water temperature rarely drops below 12 degrees

 

[akaPABLO01]

I keep it running as long as I can , however the weather in November generally means we have to give up swimming then.
I have one year kep going into January but it was very mild that year, cannot remember which.
Generally the heat pump starts to struggle in mid to late October. It is normally high Relative Humidity combined with temperatures below 8 degrees which result in a rapid frosting of the radiator.
It can work in far lower temperatures provided humidity is low, so if the barometer is high generally it works well but a low barometer and its associated cloudy damp conditions soon put an end to the heat.
We rarely turn the pool on till mid April, starting from a cold pool takes some heating, even if the water temperature rarely drops below 12 degrees

Interesting, so the pump doesn’t enjoy performing below 8°C and swings into defrost mode completely shutting down heat productivity?

You know ASHP from Mitsubishi providing full heat and hot water will deliver at -15°C and is even operational down to -25°C.

@Exfarmer are we comparing apples to potatoes?

 

[Exfarmer]

Interesting, so the pump doesn’t enjoy performing below 8°C and swings into defrost mode completely shutting down heat productivity?

You know ASHP from Mitsubishi providing full heat and hot water will deliver at -15°C and is even operational down to -25°C.

@Exfarmer are we comparing apples to potatoes?

The pump goes into defrost mode since it freezes up from the condensation on the fins. This is a problem all heatpumps and air con units have in the wrong conditions working hard. Can the Mitsubishi guarantee it wont freeze up? A lot of air con units actaually stop in this situation and you may have to wait for half an hour or more to defrost before they will restart.
The problem we have in high humidity is the pump will be in defrost mode nearly as much as in heat mode. Obviously in this situation the heat yield will be small

 

[akaPABLO01]

The pump goes into defrost mode since it freezes up from the condensation on the fins. This is a problem all heatpumps and air con units have in the wrong conditions working hard. Can the Mitsubishi guarantee it wont freeze up? A lot of air con units actaually stop in this situation and you may have to wait for half an hour or more to defrost before they will restart.
The problem we have in high humidity is the pump will be in defrost mode nearly as much as in heat mode. Obviously in this situation the heat yield will be small

Here is your data sheet that suggests your heat pump will not be operational below 8°
http://www.crystalclearpond.co.uk/sp_uk/MASTER-MANUAL-APRIL-blank.pdf

This is an Achilles when F-Gas is used (Aircon also) unlike Mitsubishi heat pump compressor

Game, set and match.

I’ll see you at the bar it’s your shout

 

[Exfarmer]

Here is your data sheet that suggests your heat pump will not be operational below 8°
http://www.crystalclearpond.co.uk/sp_uk/MASTER-MANUAL-APRIL-blank.pdf

This is an Achilles when F-Gas is used (Aircon also) unlike Mitsubishi heat pump compressor

Game, set and match.

I’ll see you at the bar it’s your shout

So you can supply a Mitsubishi unit to do a similar job , without freezing comtinually?

 

[akaPABLO01]

So you can supply a Mitsubishi unit to do a similar job , without freezing comtinually?

Nope. If the pool is indoors then put the pump inside. It’ll work all year round as long as you’ve got rads in there or some heating keeping the room above 8°

 

[Exfarmer]

Nope. If the pool is indoors then put the pump inside. It’ll work all year round as long as you’ve got rads in there or some heating keeping the room above 8°

I assume you are joking, I am quite serious , if you think your Mitsibishi unit can outperform this SP I am very happy to look at changing. The SP is now 8 years old so a change is probably due anyway.
The pool is outside but is covered by a double skin polycarbonate dome, combined with there insulation we put round and under the pool

 

[akaPABLO01]

I assume you are joking, I am quite serious , if you think your Mitsibishi unit can outperform this SP I am very happy to look at changing. The SP is now 8 years old so a change is probably due anyway.
The pool is outside but is covered by a double skin polycarbonate dome, combined with there insulation we put round and under the pool

I am being serious. Put it in the garage

& Mitsubishi will not work

 

[Exfarmer]

I am being serious. Put it in the garage

& Mitsubishi will not work

You cannot put it in the garage, that is the hieght of stupidity!
It needs free air as they all do.
What you are admitting is that all these heat pumps are ineffective in cold weather, just when they are needed.

 

[akaPABLO01]

You cannot put it in the garage, that is the hieght of stupidity!
It needs free air as they all do.
What you are admitting is that all these heat pumps are ineffective in cold weather, just when they are needed.

I’m saying that the manufacturers of this swimming pool heat pump expect you to shut it down over winter or below 8° It defrosts.

Flow rates and pipe sizing is why you wouldn’t use a Mitsubishi to heat your pool. You need something like your 25kW to get the job done using 50mm pipe. A Mitsubishi domestic 14kW there largest is 28mm pipe. These system aren’t designed for pool volume. You unit was built 2006 I think. Technology has moved on and if you do research you’ll see pool heat pumps that operate at -5°. As you said it’s probably time to upgrade.

 

[Exfarmer]

I’m saying that the manufacturers of this swimming pool heat pump expect you to shut it down over winter or below 8° It defrosts.

Flow rates and pipe sizing is why you wouldn’t use a Mitsubishi to heat your pool. You need something like your 25kW to get the job done using 50mm pipe. A Mitsubishi domestic 14kW there largest is 28mm pipe. These system aren’t designed for pool volume. You unit was built 2006 I think. Technology has moved on and if you do research you’ll see pool heat pumps that operate at -5°. As you said it’s probably time to upgrade.

It would be very simple to use a Mitsubishi and a heat exchanger to up the water flow. In fact 2 of the Mitsubishi units would seem ideal possibly splitting flow. We currently do not send all the flow through the heat pump,anyway.
If you are certain the Mitsubishi would not freeze down to minus 5 i would happily install 1 or 2

 

[akaPABLO01]

It would be very simple to use a Mitsubishi and a heat exchanger to up the water flow. In fact 2 of the Mitsubishi units would seem ideal possibly splitting flow. We currently do not send all the flow through the heat pump,anyway.
If you are certain the Mitsubishi would not freeze down to minus 5 i would happily install 1 or 2

Reet, you are persistent so I’ll explore your curiosity. Let’s begin.

Single or 3 phase

Let’s see if you get over the 1st hurdle

 

[Frankzy]

At those kind of volumes it'd probably be cheaper to just go for a goethermal heat pump...

 

[Exfarmer]

Reet, you are persistent so I’ll explore your curiosity. Let’s begin.

Single or 3 phase

Let’s see if you get over the 1st hurdle

Single

 

[akaPABLO01]

Single

The dno would refuse 2 x 14kW

They sweat with 1

 

[akaPABLO01]

Single

Thinking though. You need about 22kW. What say 2x 11.2kW cascade?

 

[Exfarmer]

Think you will find a 14 Kw heat pump will only draw 3.5Kw ie. 14 amps a bit more on atart up of course. The 14 Kw refers to out put not input

 

[akaPABLO01]

Think you will find a 14 Kw heat pump will only draw 3.5Kw ie. 14 amps a bit more on atart up of course. The 14 Kw refers to out put not input

Listen son. I don’t tell you how to milk cows so don’t tell me how to design ashp when the 14kW need 40amp breakers.

Or do you have more then 100amp coming in?