Sole living from sheep ,Flock size

[unlacedgecko]

Thanks for the comprehensive response.

"Removal of BPS is helping to focus landowner minds, and opening up opportunities on sub optimal cropping land, winter cover crops etc."

but I rather fear that ELMS as it stands, will make every other opportunity more attractive than providing grazing.
This is why I suggested that there should be a headage payment connected to environmental options such that landowners have an incentive to provide land for all the shepherds that rely on renting ground.

You may well be right. When I attended Groundswell last year the was a significant minority of attendees who were there seeking environmental schemes payments as a way to replace BPS.

In an ideal world BPS will go and nothing will replace it. But I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Tim W]

You may well be right. When I attended Groundswell last year the was a significant minority of attendees who were there seeking environmental schemes payments as a way to replace BPS.

In an ideal world BPS will go and nothing will replace it. But I'm not holding my breath.

However a headage payment will just find it's way to landowners in the way of increased rents ---i don't know any way of rewarding farmers with direct subsidy that doesn't reward landowners just for owning land

I'm a cynic with these ''changes'' as i suspect you are @unlacedgecko

 

[unlacedgecko]

However a headage payment will just find it's way to landowners in the way of increased rents ---i don't know any way of rewarding farmers with direct subsidy that doesn't reward landowners just for owning land

I'm a cynic with these ''changes'' as i suspect you are @unlacedgecko

Born cynic. I don't think there is any political appetite for a headage sub. I could be wrong though, I often am.

 

[Woolless]

Born cynic. I don't think there is any political appetite for a headage sub. I could be wrong though, I often am.

I would very much doubt it as well, although Scotland do pay for ewe Hoggs in hill areas and for suckled calves.

 

[Jackov Altraids]

Born cynic. I don't think there is any political appetite for a headage sub. I could be wrong though, I often am.

This from a Local Nature Recovery plan for here;

A4. Support landowners to bring 10,000ha of intensive grassland fields into conversion to semi-improved grassland that have a range of herbs and native grasses present within them, for example through the introduction of herbal leys and changing grazing and nutrient management regimes.

A headage payment linked to appropriate stocking rates would be an appropriate method of achieving this.
But reading the plan further, the local wildlife group wants to get the money and credit for this and seems to expect the landowner to do it with goodwill and their 'education'.

 

[CopperBeech]

It’s interesting, we are talking about making a living from sheep. The easiest way seems to be - either get a small number of sheep, or go and stand near other peoples sometimes. Get very very good at social media, and self promotion, and begin to get free stuff, and eventually actual cash money. Write a book, saying nothing very interesting, well no more than anyone else (everyone’s life is interesting to some others) and then just attend conferences, talks, and try as hard as you can to avoid any actual sheep work / talk (other than how cute lambs are) in case you’re found out.

Oh, if you can dance in a somewhat stupid way in front of or next to your sheep and use tik tok, that’s an added bonus

 

[Bracklandbarn]

My sole income is from my sheep. I have so far built it up to 600 ewes from scratch after moving East with 25 ewes 10 years ago. At first I worked full time shepherding for others but have gradually reigned it in. It can be done, so long as you like no security of tenure and copious amounts of electric fencing. My biggest expense is running my truck and my time (not rent!)

 

[Anymulewilldo]

This from a Local Nature Recovery plan for here;

A4. Support landowners to bring 10,000ha of intensive grassland fields into conversion to semi-improved grassland that have a range of herbs and native grasses present within them, for example through the introduction of herbal leys and changing grazing and nutrient management regimes.

A headage payment linked to appropriate stocking rates would be an appropriate method of achieving this.
But reading the plan further, the local wildlife group wants to get the money and credit for this and seems to expect the landowner to do it with goodwill and their 'education'.

Funny how these people are always full of ideas for other peoples property? Last time they came here Grandad was sat on the patio in the sun and told them “bring me a cheque for £2.5 million and you can do what the hell you want with it. Until then sod off”

 

[TlymarT_028]

my self and wife both working 8-5 mon-fri away from farming . First generation farmer here but farming is in the family on both sides. 5 years in now to keeping a commercial flock (28 years old) and built up from 0 to keeping approx 150-170 ewes and all land and buildings are rented on a yearly basis. Land rents in the region of £150 Per acre. All sheep away on winter keep from October onwards. Winter keep is anything from 1 acre to 20 acres and none if it is completely fenced, everywhere needs some amount of electric fencing. We do all the checking/fencing/moving on the winter runs. Winter is by far the hardest part. Usually start housing from early January to lambing (late March/april). Lamb 30 ewes at Christmas and 20 in February and target the early lamb market and improve cash flow in the spring time.

If I wasn’t working full time I wouldn’t be where I am today in the farming side of things. A lot of money has been ploughed into it to get up and going. The next aim is to buy a small place with sheds and a few acres etc or at least a good site for putting up a few sheds so that we have the security of a base/yard of our own.

Sounds a lot like me and where I'm trying to get to. How do you sort your time off your normal job for two lots of lambing? Your work must love you or you have a really goo job and am I reading that wrong or do you only lamb 50 ewes out of the 150-170?

 

[Boso]

What part of the world are you in @Boso?
It’s not a simple job starting from nothing

South East Netherlands, close to Ardennes and Eifel. Hills around here are between 300-1000ft. Not very high but quite steep. If you cross the border it's about 2000- 2400ft around here.

In the Netherlands there are very few big sheepfarms, less than 10 with more than 1500 ewes. Because of this we are pretty inefficient sheep farmers over here of you ask me.
Almost everyone uses electric netting, quads are rare and sheep are often kept to offer a paid landscaping service. Which makes up for the lack of efficiency.

For an efficient system profit could be really healthy over here because of the paid opportunities. I'm trying to apply what I see over here on the forum/in the UK and NZ to my context.

The German farms nearby are usually 800-1200 ewes. Often running around with them and their tending dogs all day long. Very traditional, great to see but only viable with cheap labour.
On the Belgian side, in the Ardennes there is no real sheep farming tradition.