SOP AGM.

Ley253

Member
Location
Bath
Either you are being obtuse or I am not making my point clear. The World championship qualifiers within the framework of the Nationals are financed by the Society of ploughmen with money derived primarily from subs, entrance fees, stand lets and gate money. A large percentage of the physical input is from ploughmen of all disciplines. This is why the SOP supports vintage ploughing and other activities even though there is no world qualification. Just close your eyes and imagine the Nationals with only world style and a few horses and high cut. That would be a sight to behold and where would the money come from to support it without the large majority of ploughmen to bulk up the income? Vintage are fed up with being treated as providers in return for a few crumbs and a dirty floor to li on.
The Sop, would do quite nicely without vintage, how it did years ago, and could do again, its income would shrink, but so would its liabilities. Your constant refrain about money, is the same as the one I have mentioned before, there were some quite pointed posts on this forum from competitors complaining that their entry fees were being used to provide prize money for other classes. This inequality is endemic,its one of the reasons prize money was withdrawn from the national. It removed one area of disagreement. No matter who runs a ploughing match, or any event featuring different classes of competition, some classes will be better supported than others, and if standard prize money is to be offered, it will either has to be so low as to be pointless, or financed in part by the better supported classes. There is a way around this though. Find local firms to sponsor each class, and provide the prizes, for example you could have, the snap on tool high cut class, with tools of declining value as prizes, or perhaps ,the classic tractor vintage mounted class, with a years subscription, a coat and hat, and a cap, for prizes.
 

Ley253

Member
Location
Bath
Well I think a good way to start would be for the new regime - society - club to communicate with members and societies , something sadly lacking with the SOP.
Quite so, a monthly news sheet, or similar would go along way towards bridging the gulf, as would a much better web site, what is there is a disgrace. Moving the agm around would help, people from outlying areas could attend than bringing their local concerns and ideas. That idea was discussed, but thats as far as it got, it needs to be constantly dumped back on the table.
 

arcobob

Member
Location
Norfolk
The Sop, would do quite nicely without vintage, how it did years ago, and could do again, its income would shrink, but so would its liabilities. Your constant refrain about money, is the same as the one I have mentioned before, there were some quite pointed posts on this forum from competitors complaining that their entry fees were being used to provide prize money for other classes. This inequality is endemic,its one of the reasons prize money was withdrawn from the national. It removed one area of disagreement. No matter who runs a ploughing match, or any event featuring different classes of competition, some classes will be better supported than others, and if standard prize money is to be offered, it will either has to be so low as to be pointless, or financed in part by the better supported classes. There is a way around this though. Find local firms to sponsor each class, and provide the prizes, for example you could have, the snap on tool high cut class, with tools of declining value as prizes, or perhaps ,the classic tractor vintage mounted class, with a years subscription, a coat and hat, and a cap, for prizes.
This prize money for other classes has never been a bone of contention of mine. It happens all the time including my match except that I, or rather my firm sponsors the prizes . Every ploughman is an entrant with equal standing. No favouritism is shown regarding quality of land, all plots are drawn beforehand by an independent body of people and the prize fund is the same for each class. That is a level playing field as I see it and that is how it should be.
 

arcobob

Member
Location
Norfolk
Quite so, a monthly news sheet, or similar would go along way towards bridging the gulf, as would a much better web site, what is there is a disgrace. Moving the agm around would help, people from outlying areas could attend than bringing their local concerns and ideas. That idea was discussed, but thats as far as it got, it needs to be constantly dumped back on the table.
All good stuff Harry but new ideas are no good when falling on deaf ears. Hence the need for a fresh start.
 

Ley253

Member
Location
Bath
The ears are a little more receptive these days, as I said, the non confrontation system for stewarding was an outside idea accepted. We can hope for more, but they will need time to recover from the shock of that first!
This prize money for other classes has never been a bone of contention of mine. It happens all the time including my match except that I, or rather my firm sponsors the prizes . Every ploughman is an entrant with equal standing. No favouritism is shown regarding quality of land, all plots are drawn beforehand by an independent body of people and the prize fund is the same for each class. That is a level playing field as I see it and that is how it should be.
Of yours, no, but you are but one, and others have other ideas.
 

Vinceg

New Member
What happens when brexit kicks in and we’re no longer Europeans it’ll just be British championships and that’s as far you can go with classic and vintage classes .?.
 

Ley253

Member
Location
Bath
The ears are a little more receptive these days, as I said, the non confrontation system for stewarding was an outside idea accepted. We can hope for more, but they will need time to recover from the shock of that first!

Of yours, no, but you are but one, and others have other ideas.
As the following post from Rusty seemed to confirm.
 

Boohoo

Member
Location
Newtownabbey
What happens when brexit kicks in and we’re no longer Europeans it’ll just be British championships and that’s as far you can go with classic and vintage classes .?.
Let's not make this political but after Brexit we'll still be in Europe, just not in the European Union and I'm sure we'll still be welcome at the European Vintage Ploughing Championships. Even if we aren't, there's still the 6 nations competition.
 

Howard150

Member
Location
Yorkshire
The Sop, would do quite nicely without vintage, how it did years ago, and could do again

8040C995-B421-456E-9D2C-53BD2903CB07.jpeg
 

Kenham

Member
Pass. I really don't need any society , club etc. to enjoy my trailer ploughing but it would be nice to have a society club etc to call upon when info needed and such like. I am 61 and have been comp. ploughing for more years than I care to remember, when we started there was no vintage or classic or trailed plough classes , we just entered a ploughing match and upset our neighbours because we did not know what we were doing. I reached a reasonable level of competency a few years ago and was winning a fair amount of matches I entered but then other things took over in life like arthritis and 5 am starts to go to a ploughing match seem like hard work. I personally think a club or society to cater for everyone with a good newsletter / forum would be to the advantage of most ploughmen /women. Not everyone who ploughs wants to be supreme champion and travel hundreds of miles every week to win everything, I don't know the percentage of the very very good ploughmen as to the general ploughmen who just go out for a good days ploughing but I know who the greater number would be . So as far as I see it if a new society were to cater for all , starting at the level of teaching novices to the other extent of sending winners to Europe it would be good for everyone. If people are getting something out of a society they will not mind going a little bit further to help with sending a ploughmen to Europe but they will need to feel they are getting that something in the first place. I run a little match just for trailer ploughs as they are getting a bit thin on the ground at matches down here and we can end up with 12 - 15 at our match because we are willing to help those that are not sure what to do , at most matches there will only be 2 or 3. If every ploughman wants to see the sport survive then everyone should try to put a little something back, when I started the old boys who became good friends still would not tell me anything about ploughing and this is where a good club /society will succeed. I have been ploughing all of 40 years but I can and have learnt a lot just on this forum so it is not just novices who would benefit from a good club / society. (I wish I new a better word for club / society). I really do think if any new setup is just about top class ploughing and winning major matches it is doomed from the start, start at the beginning and work into something great would be my way of thinking. Just my simple thoughts on it .
 

Ley253

Member
Location
Bath
You find that funny then? Ok I will explain. The SOP exists to find two ploughmen to go to the world match. Thats it. They dont need to run a large show, they dont need to move around the country, they dont need to train judges, they dont need affiliated societies, they dont need to do anything other than run a small match for about forty competitors.This could be held at the same site every year and with vastly lower insurance premiums etc, , oh and it doent need to make any contribution to the reps travel or accommodation costs . Even that is not an essential, a simple points system covering world style ploughmen throughout the season would throw up two competent men. In fact, that could be a better way, it would level out the luck of the draw, and the whole thing could be run from a back bedroom.
To conclude, such an event has already been held, after the national was rained off one year.
 

Ley253

Member
Location
Bath
Pass. I really don't need any society , club etc. to enjoy my trailer ploughing but it would be nice to have a society club etc to call upon when info needed and such like. I am 61 and have been comp. ploughing for more years than I care to remember, when we started there was no vintage or classic or trailed plough classes , we just entered a ploughing match and upset our neighbours because we did not know what we were doing. I reached a reasonable level of competency a few years ago and was winning a fair amount of matches I entered but then other things took over in life like arthritis and 5 am starts to go to a ploughing match seem like hard work. I personally think a club or society to cater for everyone with a good newsletter / forum would be to the advantage of most ploughmen /women. Not everyone who ploughs wants to be supreme champion and travel hundreds of miles every week to win everything, I don't know the percentage of the very very good ploughmen as to the general ploughmen who just go out for a good days ploughing but I know who the greater number would be . So as far as I see it if a new society were to cater for all , starting at the level of teaching novices to the other extent of sending winners to Europe it would be good for everyone. If people are getting something out of a society they will not mind going a little bit further to help with sending a ploughmen to Europe but they will need to feel they are getting that something in the first place. I run a little match just for trailer ploughs as they are getting a bit thin on the ground at matches down here and we can end up with 12 - 15 at our match because we are willing to help those that are not sure what to do , at most matches there will only be 2 or 3. If every ploughman wants to see the sport survive then everyone should try to put a little something back, when I started the old boys who became good friends still would not tell me anything about ploughing and this is where a good club /society will succeed. I have been ploughing all of 40 years but I can and have learnt a lot just on this forum so it is not just novices who would benefit from a good club / society. (I wish I new a better word for club / society). I really do think if any new setup is just about top class ploughing and winning major matches it is doomed from the start, start at the beginning and work into something great would be my way of thinking. Just my simple thoughts on it .
Multiple likes are in order!
That is exactly how it was when I started, ploughs pulled from hedges, some times on the way to matches.
You could try the word "Association".
I have ten years start on you and all this is just a rerun , on a larger scale,its true of the long v short boards, tvo v diesel wails that used to be heard. The good thing that should come out of it is that all the subterfuge etc will now be in the light of day, and both sides can promote their vision of the future.
We are, or should be first and foremost ploughmen, and should be proud and willing to find and send our top men to international events.
I find it strange that a section with at least 5 ( 7 if you count high cut) classes can claim to be receiving less attention than a section with 2!
 
Last edited:

Sprayer

Member
Location
South Derbyshire
Pass. I really don't need any society , club etc. to enjoy my trailer ploughing but it would be nice to have a society club etc to call upon when info needed and such like. I am 61 and have been comp. ploughing for more years than I care to remember, when we started there was no vintage or classic or trailed plough classes , we just entered a ploughing match and upset our neighbours because we did not know what we were doing. I reached a reasonable level of competency a few years ago and was winning a fair amount of matches I entered but then other things took over in life like arthritis and 5 am starts to go to a ploughing match seem like hard work. I personally think a club or society to cater for everyone with a good newsletter / forum would be to the advantage of most ploughmen /women. Not everyone who ploughs wants to be supreme champion and travel hundreds of miles every week to win everything, I don't know the percentage of the very very good ploughmen as to the general ploughmen who just go out for a good days ploughing but I know who the greater number would be . So as far as I see it if a new society were to cater for all , starting at the level of teaching novices to the other extent of sending winners to Europe it would be good for everyone. If people are getting something out of a society they will not mind going a little bit further to help with sending a ploughmen to Europe but they will need to feel they are getting that something in the first place. I run a little match just for trailer ploughs as they are getting a bit thin on the ground at matches down here and we can end up with 12 - 15 at our match because we are willing to help those that are not sure what to do , at most matches there will only be 2 or 3. If every ploughman wants to see the sport survive then everyone should try to put a little something back, when I started the old boys who became good friends still would not tell me anything about ploughing and this is where a good club /society will succeed. I have been ploughing all of 40 years but I can and have learnt a lot just on this forum so it is not just novices who would benefit from a good club / society. (I wish I new a better word for club / society). I really do think if any new setup is just about top class ploughing and winning major matches it is doomed from the start, start at the beginning and work into something great would be my way of thinking. Just my simple thoughts on it .

yes learn to walk before trying to run, and remember to try to give all ploughmen a say in what happen or at least listen and be prepared to have open discussion.
 

arcobob

Member
Location
Norfolk
You find that funny then? Ok I will explain. The SOP exists to find two ploughmen to go to the world match. Thats it. They dont need to run a large show, they dont need to move around the country, they dont need to train judges, they dont need affiliated societies, they dont need to do anything other than run a small match for about forty competitors.This could be held at the same site every year and with vastly lower insurance premiums etc, , oh and it doent need to make any contribution to the reps travel or accommodation costs . Even that is not an essential, a simple points system covering world style ploughmen throughout the season would throw up two competent men. In fact, that could be a better way, it would level out the luck of the draw, and the whole thing could be run from a back bedroom.
To conclude, such an event has already been held, after the national was rained off one year.
That would not produce enough revenue or high profile glory for the present participants. The secretary would be redundant and somebody's lights would go out.
 
Last edited:

Pennine Ploughing

Member
Mixed Farmer
You find that funny then? Ok I will explain. The SOP exists to find two ploughmen to go to the world match. Thats it. They dont need to run a large show, they dont need to move around the country, they dont need to train judges, they dont need affiliated societies, they dont need to do anything other than run a small match for about forty competitors.This could be held at the same site every year and with vastly lower insurance premiums etc, , oh and it doent need to make any contribution to the reps travel or accommodation costs . Even that is not an essential, a simple points system covering world style ploughmen throughout the season would throw up two competent men. In fact, that could be a better way, it would level out the luck of the draw, and the whole thing could be run from a back bedroom.
To conclude, such an event has already been held, after the national was rained off one year.
but SOP will be still running the classes that they are today, no body said they would stop, and as long as there is entries for vintage, there is no need to stop, ans for a few on here to think SOP would stop running the national, are very much mistaken,
the only good side is the fact that there will be 2 nationals each year, frim 2 separate national clubs, this alone has to be a good thing, so more chance of ploughmen that want to plough at national level being able to achieve this, providing there is a type of qualifier type match at local level for both to keep the ploughing standards high, and not a free for all

i take it the new club will be making a new rule book, and new score sheets, and offering free plough judging seminars with free dinner in every county on the land, to get judges up to speed, ( and they complained about the cost from SOP) so will there be no charge ?
 

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