SOP AGM.

Ley253

Member
Location
Bath
I seem to remember that I presented you with plenty of facts in our "step in the finish" debate including the fact that not all ploughs shift the soil as far as the ploughing width which blew your theory right out of the water, however you chose to ignore and carry on waffling and we are right back there now with you trying to defend the indefensible, I cannot comment on whether or not Mr Richardson was shouted down as I was not at the AGM, neither were you, however given the way others have been shouted down in the past Mr Richardson's account at least has some credence.
Roy,
It seems I am being misunderstood. I am not defending the perceived treatment of Maurice in any way. I would however like to know much more about it before taking sides. As you have pointed out, I have made the mistake of taking sides before. Strangely enough, I have experienced similar treatment from the society. I will explain. Many years ago, the government was alarmed by the use of car parks etc as race tracks by the younger element of the population. It brought in legislation requiring all vehicles used in public places to be road legal, the drivers to hold driving licences. As this would have killed some off road sports, schoolboy grass track for example,governing bodies of such sports could ask for, and be granted "Authorising Body" status, and such events they organised would be exempt from the legislation. There was ,however a time limit for these requests to be made. I stood up at a meeting of the organising group for the Shillingford national, and asked the Society to make the request. I was pointed told that it was not required. The result of that is the fact that, as the public are allowed in at matches, all ploughing kit must be road legal! That technically makes the vintage trailed class, crawler class illegal, as its an offence to mark a road surface now, and all drivers and equipment must hold the required paperwork, so all drivers have to hold a licence, this then killing the junior training class
That is a direct result of my view being treated with contempt by the chair of the meeting, treatment it seems that is an endemic part of the organisation.
 

Ley253

Member
Location
Bath
I would like to see the 5 reinstated as they were kicked out for no reason other than asking questions. Maurice I am sorry for the way that you were treated at the AGM just shows the mentality of the directors and members that were there I wasn't
I would point out that the five were not kicked out of anything, they were removed as directors by the membership. They can still be members, and can still ask their questions.
 

Mrichardson

Member
What is my pedigree ??

I have ploughed at Ratho edinbrough in 1957 by the way KEn was in short trousers then at ACkworth grammar school then! So I have done my time at nationals, and have enjoyed years at nationals.

You may say why have I changed, whilst our family have argued round the kitchen table for 30 years farther wasn't happy with how it was run, but I was. But as you get older you get wiser. I now know dad was right! When I go to his grave I apologise.

So what made me change altogether. I had been unhappy for 5 or 6 years going to meetings and being told what they had done and we're going to do! We the none executive directors and members had no say.

We had stood and begged at ploughing matches, show, sales and even garden party's! If my wife knew how much money I had ploughed in to this raffle the would have been a divorce!

What finished me was Peterborough. We had stood there 2 days selling £5000 plus of tickets. We were stood there begging for money to keep the powers that be in a job. When word got to us that Ken and Sue were walking in our direction, we thought they may be coming to thank us or maybe bring us a cup of coffee for all the work we were doing, so we watched for them. ( by the way we had paid for there fuel and food to the show) when they got 20 to 30 yards away, the stopped and looked over in our direction, and then walked the opposite way! I wanted to tip the table upside down at that moment! That finished me!!

There are issues being brought up on here, so I'll tell you again!

I always tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth!

So I'll tell you again, I was booed, hissed at and told to sit down, even Ken butted in to awnser me back. When he had obviously been told to say nothing. He said he was going to answer me. He said the £3000 had been paid to the farmer for his loss of crop, but couldn't answer why it was in the accounts as grass seed. As for the chairman he butted in and said I was talking rubbish so at that point I knew I was waiting my time. As for receipts and accounts if I start writing about these I will take up 4 pages on here, so I'll tell you that another time!

As for the vehicle if it does the same amount of miles as the last WE OWNED and RAN it should have been given to us free! If they are advertising with it because Ken told me he had been on every football ground in Great Britain taxiing for Doncaster rovers, with there scout manager picking players up! I have never said anything about this before! Enough is enough!

I wounder if we could audit the accounts for 2015 & 2016 again because it is obvious that lots of expenses from 2016 were moved to 2015 to show we had a large profit in 2016.

I say this again

I speak the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth!
I would point out that the five were not kicked out of anything, they were removed as directors by the membership. They can still be members, and can still ask their questions.
 
Christ.....I don't know if this makes me want to get more OR less involved with the SOP!

I have never been to an SOP AGM (the main reason is I have work/family commitments and its always in Doncaster), it kind of makes me want to go just to see it all in action! NB my wife cannot believe all this fuss with grown men over ploughing, I struggle to reply with anything sensible!

In discussion with people I often remarked that it all needed leaving alone until the York match was done and dusted. And, by the way I had a great few days there and thoroughly enjoyed myself. Could it have been better....too right, it would have been nice to plough more than one day, it would have been better if there was some evening entertainment, not just a small bar with 4/5 of us huddled around it, it would have been better if there had been more trade stands (you get more at the Cheshire Ploughing Match).....nevertheless, I enjoyed it and a good show was put on for the rest of the world to see.

After York, I thought there may be big changes a foot, but it sounds like very little has happened. What's the answer ? ...unsure, I suppose there are a group of people who will happily pay the subs and the entry and keep going to the National competition (I probably fall into that group) as I suppose we crave for a overall championship class to top the season off, otherwise there is nothing to aim for. My selfish view is that the focus needs to shift to the vintage/classic classes as this continues to grow and world style reduce, as for euro reversible....that just seems a waste of time. 40/50hp'sh two furrows are a very practical cost effective proposition for the wider population, anything bigger and your into higher investment and reduced numbers of competitors. In the staffs/Cheshire/Lancs/N.Wales area you struggle to put a world style match on. The same goes with Euro.....in fact I'd go as far as to say it naffs me off that the vintage hyd class always has 10+ in it, paying £10/12 each to enter and the prizes go to 1st/2nd/3rd etc and the world and Euro have 3 a piece if they're lucky and they get 1st/2nd/3rd as well - add the prize money up.....who's funding that then ??? Whichurch YFC for example - bosting match, by the way, credit to those involved.....anyway 21 (I think) in the vintage hyd, yet only prizes to 3rd place = £250+ of entry fee from one class! (and then you have the novice vintage hyd with a similar turnout!). Maybe I'm being harsh, but that's how it feels to me...

Does the whole concept/mission statement of the SOP need to change ? or are the wider community actually happy with how its run and what it stands for ? From what I can see "most" seem to be as they keep coughing up as said previous. What a shame its in the state it is......and how much money do they have in the bank ???? what's the plan for that little lot ???

On it goes with no real sensible answer....
 

arcobob

Member
Location
Norfolk
There are some excellent ploughmen in this country but a significant percentage of the very best will never plough in the Nationals again under the present regime.. This makes victory somewhat hollow but then, in my experience, it was never an even handed contest in any of the classes, particularly the scruffy classes. Many of my associates ploughing in qualifying classes have no intention of going to the Nationals and it frequently turns out that ploughmen in third or fourth place often get the qualification. The governing body and the National championships no longer represent the ploughmen of this country as far as the vintage classes are concerned and the notion that the best ploughmen go forward to represent their country is becoming increasingly farcical.
 

Ley253

Member
Location
Bath
What is my pedigree ??

I have ploughed at Ratho edinbrough in 1957 by the way KEn was in short trousers then at ACkworth grammar school then! So I have done my time at nationals, and have enjoyed years at nationals.

You may say why have I changed, whilst our family have argued round the kitchen table for 30 years farther wasn't happy with how it was run, but I was. But as you get older you get wiser. I now know dad was right! When I go to his grave I apologise.

So what made me change altogether. I had been unhappy for 5 or 6 years going to meetings and being told what they had done and we're going to do! We the none executive directors and members had no say.

We had stood and begged at ploughing matches, show, sales and even garden party's! If my wife knew how much money I had ploughed in to this raffle the would have been a divorce!

What finished me was Peterborough. We had stood there 2 days selling £5000 plus of tickets. We were stood there begging for money to keep the powers that be in a job. When word got to us that Ken and Sue were walking in our direction, we thought they may be coming to thank us or maybe bring us a cup of coffee for all the work we were doing, so we watched for them. ( by the way we had paid for there fuel and food to the show) when they got 20 to 30 yards away, the stopped and looked over in our direction, and then walked the opposite way! I wanted to tip the table upside down at that moment! That finished me!!

There are issues being brought up on here, so I'll tell you again!

I always tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth!

So I'll tell you again, I was booed, hissed at and told to sit down, even Ken butted in to awnser me back. When he had obviously been told to say nothing. He said he was going to answer me. He said the £3000 had been paid to the farmer for his loss of crop, but couldn't answer why it was in the accounts as grass seed. As for the chairman he butted in and said I was talking rubbish so at that point I knew I was waiting my time. As for receipts and accounts if I start writing about these I will take up 4 pages on here, so I'll tell you that another time!

As for the vehicle if it does the same amount of miles as the last WE OWNED and RAN it should have been given to us free! If they are advertising with it because Ken told me he had been on every football ground in Great Britain taxiing for Doncaster rovers, with there scout manager picking players up! I have never said anything about this before! Enough is enough!

I wounder if we could audit the accounts for 2015 & 2016 again because it is obvious that lots of expenses from 2016 were moved to 2015 to show we had a large profit in 2016.

I say this again

I speak the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth!
Thank you Maurice for your reply, sad though it was to read. The time has come, I feel for outside bodies to be brought in,to investigate this "can of worms". It may well be "kill or cure" time, but the treatment must be given, without it, this will fester for ever.
It is remarkable that the same man who dismissed my concerns at the Shillingford meeting, was involved in similar actions with yourself, though many years later.
I apologise for doubting your initial version of events, in my defence, I can only say I could not believe that the society could be maintaining the attitudes that caused so much angst before, and that events had been heightened by a tension filled meeting.
 

Ley253

Member
Location
Bath
Christ.....I don't know if this makes me want to get more OR less involved with the SOP!

I have never been to an SOP AGM (the main reason is I have work/family commitments and its always in Doncaster), it kind of makes me want to go just to see it all in action! NB my wife cannot believe all this fuss with grown men over ploughing, I struggle to reply with anything sensible!

In discussion with people I often remarked that it all needed leaving alone until the York match was done and dusted. And, by the way I had a great few days there and thoroughly enjoyed myself. Could it have been better....too right, it would have been nice to plough more than one day, it would have been better if there was some evening entertainment, not just a small bar with 4/5 of us huddled around it, it would have been better if there had been more trade stands (you get more at the Cheshire Ploughing Match).....nevertheless, I enjoyed it and a good show was put on for the rest of the world to see.

After York, I thought there may be big changes a foot, but it sounds like very little has happened. What's the answer ? ...unsure, I suppose there are a group of people who will happily pay the subs and the entry and keep going to the National competition (I probably fall into that group) as I suppose we crave for a overall championship class to top the season off, otherwise there is nothing to aim for. My selfish view is that the focus needs to shift to the vintage/classic classes as this continues to grow and world style reduce, as for euro reversible....that just seems a waste of time. 40/50hp'sh two furrows are a very practical cost effective proposition for the wider population, anything bigger and your into higher investment and reduced numbers of competitors. In the staffs/Cheshire/Lancs/N.Wales area you struggle to put a world style match on. The same goes with Euro.....in fact I'd go as far as to say it naffs me off that the vintage hyd class always has 10+ in it, paying £10/12 each to enter and the prizes go to 1st/2nd/3rd etc and the world and Euro have 3 a piece if they're lucky and they get 1st/2nd/3rd as well - add the prize money up.....who's funding that then ??? Whichurch YFC for example - bosting match, by the way, credit to those involved.....anyway 21 (I think) in the vintage hyd, yet only prizes to 3rd place = £250+ of entry fee from one class! (and then you have the novice vintage hyd with a similar turnout!). Maybe I'm being harsh, but that's how it feels to me...

Does the whole concept/mission statement of the SOP need to change ? or are the wider community actually happy with how its run and what it stands for ? From what I can see "most" seem to be as they keep coughing up as said previous. What a shame its in the state it is......and how much money do they have in the bank ???? what's the plan for that little lot ???

On it goes with no real sensible answer....
The problems arise when its time to pick the two world match reps. They have to be world style, there is no other world class.Also, the societies remit was to provide a passage for ploughmen to reach the world match. They didnt want vintage at any cost, and resisted for some time, until it became too large a lump under "Doncaster towers" carpet! It would seem to be best if a divorce were to take place, but, there are only a certain number of people with the interest and time to put to running things like these, and I believe the society has most of them! And then, how long would it be, before classic wanted a divorce from vintage?
 
You make me think my two 3rds and 4th don't count for much!

All I'll say is that in the areas of the country I plough I'm up against some exceptional vintage men - Rich Ingram, Colin Hewartson, Ian Berriman, Alex Irving, to name a few... Sometimes I can't fault their ploughing, I can only aspire to be as good as them.

There are some excellent ploughmen in this country but a significant percentage of the very best will never plough in the Nationals again under the present regime.. This makes victory somewhat hollow but then, in my experience, it was never an even handed contest in any of the classes, particularly the scruffy classes. Many of my associates ploughing in qualifying classes have no intention of going to the Nationals and it frequently turns out that ploughmen in third or fourth place often get the qualification. The governing body and the National championships no longer represent the ploughmen of this country as far as the vintage classes are concerned and the notion that the best ploughmen go forward to represent their country is becoming increasingly farcical.
 

arcobob

Member
Location
Norfolk
You make me think my two 3rds and 4th don't count for much!

All I'll say is that in the areas of the country I plough I'm up against some exceptional vintage men - Rich Ingram, Colin Hewartson, Ian Berriman, Alex Irving, to name a few... Sometimes I can't fault their ploughing, I can only aspire to be as good as them.
I did not mean to belittle the efforts of anyone but if you remove leading lights and past champions from the equation or you use land in National finals that is not fit for purpose or sufficiently uniform to provide twenty similar plots you cannot expect to end up with the right result. Ask Richard Ingram and Alex Irving if they were dealt a fair hand at the Taunton Nationals in 2011. They were not even close to the places and Richard for certain was in better form then than he has been in the last year or so.
 
Last edited:

rusty nuts

Member
You make me think my two 3rds and 4th don't count for much!

All I'll say is that in the areas of the country I plough I'm up against some exceptional vintage men - Rich Ingram, Colin Hewartson, Ian Berriman, Alex Irving, to name a few... Sometimes I can't fault their ploughing, I can only aspire to be as good as them.
You had the best plot in the field in kent .You won't win in somerset now after what you have said on here.
 
I attended the AGM of the Society of Ploughmen, it was my last. Nothing has changed, in fact it has got worse. It will be the same for the next 40 years. They got everything that they wanted over the last five years.

Sue is the official secretary and a new office secretary as well and there is still a manager to supervise them. I hope that the £14,000 management fee has ended. I believe that a brand new vehicle has been provided. Did I hear the vehicle being sanctioned at the AGM? When the vehicle was mentioned there was a mumbel that couldn't be heard, then I found out after the meeting they had been ridding round at the European for two days before the AGM.

I had a bible with me at the AGM, I was prepared to have a case. We had a JP I had plenty of whitnesses for my case, but the jury had already been conned. After being booed and hissed at I decided to leave it to them!!! Time will tell.

I would like to know what kind of grass seed was sown at York! I could do with 500 acre of this seed! I would be a millionaire overnight. The grass was sown in September 2015 and by 30 November 2015 ( that's 10 weeks) they had paid the host farmer or somebody else £1315 for cutting the said grass. When I sow grass it is April before it is big enough to cut! I must be sewing it upside down, could someone please tell me what it is I'm doing wrong!

The lack of a Treasurer and an accountant that admits that he does not audit the accounts...I cannot go through this every year for the next four decades.

My legitimate questions were "shouted down" so I will put my points here on Farming Forum.

As a member of long standing I will not be booed, hissed at and told to shut up. I was accused of talking rubbish. How could I be? I was not allowed to make my point. There are far too many good men that have walked away from this once fine society.

They are all pulling together alright, however Chappell Way or nothing. If you do not approve you are kicked out. There again, it may be a good thing for the society. Ken told me two years ago that that he would, "...take the society for every penny that they have." if Sue did not get the job.

The last time that a family demanded that child followed the father into power was in North Korea....and we know where they are heading.
I attended the AGM of the Society of Ploughmen, it was my last. Nothing has changed, in fact it has got worse. It will be the same for the next 40 years. They got everything that they wanted over the last five years.

Sue is the official secretary and a new office secretary as well and there is still a manager to supervise them. I hope that the £14,000 management fee has ended. I believe that a brand new vehicle has been provided. Did I hear the vehicle being sanctioned at the AGM? When the vehicle was mentioned there was a mumbel that couldn't be heard, then I found out after the meeting they had been ridding round at the European for two days before the AGM.

I had a bible with me at the AGM, I was prepared to have a case. We had a JP I had plenty of whitnesses for my case, but the jury had already been conned. After being booed and hissed at I decided to leave it to them!!! Time will tell.

I would like to know what kind of grass seed was sown at York! I could do with 500 acre of this seed! I would be a millionaire overnight. The grass was sown in September 2015 and by 30 November 2015 ( that's 10 weeks) they had paid the host farmer or somebody else £1315 for cutting the said grass. When I sow grass it is April before it is big enough to cut! I must be sewing it upside down, could someone please tell me what it is I'm doing wrong!

The lack of a Treasurer and an accountant that admits that he does not audit the accounts...I cannot go through this every year for the next four decades.

My legitimate questions were "shouted down" so I will put my points here on Farming Forum.

As a member of long standing I will not be booed, hissed at and told to shut up. I was accused of talking rubbish. How could I be? I was not allowed to make my point. There are far too many good men that have walked away from this once fine society.

They are all pulling together alright, however Chappell Way or nothing. If you do not approve you are kicked out. There again, it may be a good thing for the society. Ken told me two years ago that that he would, "...take the society for every penny that they have." if Sue did not get the job.

The last time that a family demanded that child followed the father into power was in North Korea....and we know where they are heading.
 
What is my pedigree ??

I have ploughed at Ratho edinbrough in 1957 by the way KEn was in short trousers then at ACkworth grammar school then! So I have done my time at nationals, and have enjoyed years at nationals.

You may say why have I changed, whilst our family have argued round the kitchen table for 30 years farther wasn't happy with how it was run, but I was. But as you get older you get wiser. I now know dad was right! When I go to his grave I apologise.

So what made me change altogether. I had been unhappy for 5 or 6 years going to meetings and being told what they had done and we're going to do! We the none executive directors and members had no say.

We had stood and begged at ploughing matches, show, sales and even garden party's! If my wife knew how much money I had ploughed in to this raffle the would have been a divorce!

What finished me was Peterborough. We had stood there 2 days selling £5000 plus of tickets. We were stood there begging for money to keep the powers that be in a job. When word got to us that Ken and Sue were walking in our direction, we thought they may be coming to thank us or maybe bring us a cup of coffee for all the work we were doing, so we watched for them. ( by the way we had paid for there fuel and food to the show) when they got 20 to 30 yards away, the stopped and looked over in our direction, and then walked the opposite way! I wanted to tip the table upside down at that moment! That finished me!!

There are issues being brought up on here, so I'll tell you again!

I always tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth!

So I'll tell you again, I was booed, hissed at and told to sit down, even Ken butted in to awnser me back. When he had obviously been told to say nothing. He said he was going to answer me. He said the £3000 had been paid to the farmer for his loss of crop, but couldn't answer why it was in the accounts as grass seed. As for the chairman he butted in and said I was talking rubbish so at that point I knew I was waiting my time. As for receipts and accounts if I start writing about these I will take up 4 pages on here, so I'll tell you that another time!

As for the vehicle if it does the same amount of miles as the last WE OWNED and RAN it should have been given to us free! If they are advertising with it because Ken told me he had been on every football ground in Great Britain taxiing for Doncaster rovers, with there scout manager picking players up! I have never said anything about this before! Enough is enough!

I wounder if we could audit the accounts for 2015 & 2016 again because it is obvious that lots of expenses from 2016 were moved to 2015 to show we had a large profit in 2016.

I say this again

I speak the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth!
 
5 were removed for speaking out at meetings although companies house web site said they resigned far from the truth. Maurice you had better look out the horse ploughman might propose that you be removed seconded by the ice cream man.
 

Howard150

Member
Location
Yorkshire
I would point out that the five were not kicked out of anything, they were removed as directors by the membership. They can still be members, and can still ask their questions.

I seem to recall a bearded attendee of the AGM where the 5 directors were dismissed, uncannily resemblant of Santa Clause in all but garb and generosity, saying a similar thing Harry. He also went on to say that there was nothing to stop them helping at the world contest in York. Ha ha bloody ha - Is there something in the water south of Bristol I ask?

Yes Harry they were kicked out - kicked out and kicked off for nothing other than daring to hold a view contrary to what any outside onlooker could be forgiven for perceiving to be nothing other than a totally unegalitarian and largely unelected, corrupt system of governors.

Would anybody in their right mind want to be part of an organisation which deals some of its best supporters some of the worst hands in the most underhand and conniving way. An insult to any self respecting man, so like it or not Harry, they have been excluded, kicked out no less.

I could understand it if the 5 had had their fingers in the till or some other equally abhorrent misdemeanour such as accepting backhanders, misappropriate use of company vehicles or even heaven forbid, bringing the society into disrepute, but not for disagreeing - disagreeing of all things - in a democracy.

Shame really that so many of us have now decided to call it a draw and walk away - especially now it looks as though they are to be having catering and ice cream at the national event on a regular basis - a brilliant concept with the members best interests at heart, which seems set to run and run....
 
Cant remember, was it Geoff Smith that won then? I was on the headland in a nice hard patch. That was the year some twit wound my furrow adjuster half a dozen times when I wasn't looking, got 15' up the plot and thought WTF ???

I did not mean to belittle the efforts of anyone but if you remove leading lights and past champions from the equation or you use land in National finals that is not fit for purpose or sufficiently uniform to provide twenty similar plots you cannot expect to end up with the right result. Ask Richard Ingram and Alex Irving if they were dealt a fair hand at the Taunton Nationals in 2011. They were not even close to the places and Richard for certain was in better form then than he has been in the last year or so.
 

Roy Stokes

Member
Location
East Shropshire
Kent...are you having a laugh? That's the worst ground I've ever had the misfortune to plough! I hade tramlines about a foot deep and two foot wide... Not sure what I've said on here that's bad or would offend.

I think he is lifting your leg Charlie, everyone knows I had the best plot in Kent, or so they keep telling me ;)...........................................................:mad:..................................
 

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