Sovereignty

Muck Spreader

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Limousin
It's different things in England and Scotland for a start. England recognises "parliamentary sovereignty" were as Scotland doesn't, it recognises "popular sovereignty" ( the people have the final say not the parliament) hence if there is a "in" vote in Scotland Nicola Sturgeon has the mandate to call another referendum. Wales and NI could be different as well I don't know.

There will be masses of this to unpick as all devolution statutes for Scotland, Wales and NI contain loads of EU laws that will become invalid. So the whole lot could end up having to be renegotiated from scratch.:banghead:
 

JP1

Member
Livestock Farmer
Sovereignty.

The elected government of this country is free to govern this country as it sees fit, in accordance with the wishes of those who voted for it, without intervention by unelected or unaccountable foreign powers.
Hmm. We'll always be dependent on American protection and therefore be dancing to their tune a bit, hence why some of us are worried about The Donald's historical tapes about bombing the sh!t out of "them"

Sorry but I agree with the OP and his thoughts on other threads, "sovereignty" is an illusion that probably dissolved at the same time as Empire
 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
Change foreign powers for cival servents .same sh!t different people

As Mrs T said, " Advisers advise, ministers decide."

Out of the EU, the buck would stop well and truly with the Minister. No more passing the blame to Brussels, no more "our hands are tied". And if it isn't satisfactory we can vote them out directly. We cannot vote out the EU commissioners, and our representation in the EU Parliament is so small it's powerless to change anything that affects us.

This for me is the reason I will voting OUT. Pure and simple. All the noise about immigration, bent bananas and the rest of it are red herrings and distractions homed in on by the loony fringe.
 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
The last time I Heard the word sovereignty used a lot was over the Falklands conflict, where useless old Great Britain managed against everybody's predictions to wrestle a piece of its territory back on the other side of the world on the very doorstep of the enemy.

That is what sovereignty is all about. Government by consent of the people. Not government imposed upon the people.

A very important thing IMO, not to be eroded or allowed to be stolen away by stealth.
 

turbo

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
lincs
As Mrs T said, " Advisers advise, ministers decide."

Out of the EU, the buck would stop well and truly with the Minister. No more passing the blame to Brussels, no more "our hands are tied". And if it isn't satisfactory we can vote them out directly. We cannot vote out the EU commissioners, and our representation in the EU Parliament is so small it's powerless to change anything that affects us.

This for me is the reason I will voting OUT. Pure and simple. All the noise about immigration, bent bananas and the rest of it are red herrings and distractions homed in on by the loony fringe.
But we all know they are not advisers ,how many change when we change governments?Who do you replace the government with there all as bad as each other,wanting to be a mp at school should be enough to ban you for life from being one.
 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
But we all know they are not advisers ,how many change when we change governments?Who do you replace the government with there all as bad as each other,wanting to be a mp at school should be enough to ban you for life from being one.

That's right. I think we lost a lot when "anybody" could become an MP and "anybody" could vote. At one time, MP's, councillors etc were often professional men or women of business and life experience who were actually capable of cutting through the flannel and making the decisions themselves. Now we just have figureheads and faces and people appointed by the party who, having no real knowledge of their own, are dangerously reliant on "advice". For an example just look at the difference between Owen Paterson and Liz Truss. Liz Truss will never be able to do the job as well as Owen Paterson because she doesn't have any experience of running a business or understanding of farming.

Having said this, I still think the lesser evil is Westminster governing without EU interference. More accountable and democratic.
 

Stuart J

Member
Location
Aberdeenshire
and our representation in the EU Parliament is so small it's powerless to change anything that affects us.

??? Where do you get that idea?

The U.K. has about 10% of MEP's!
We have more representation than most other member states! Only Germany might have more.

Maybe you should try electing ones that do a better job?
 
It's different things in England and Scotland for a start. England recognises "parliamentary sovereignty" were as Scotland doesn't, it recognises "popular sovereignty" ( the people have the final say not the parliament) hence if there is a "in" vote in Scotland Nicola Sturgeon has the mandate to call another referendum. Wales and NI could be different as well I don't know.

There will be masses of this to unpick as all devolution statutes for Scotland, Wales and NI contain loads of EU laws that will become invalid. So the whole lot could end up having to be renegotiated from scratch.:banghead:


Nope.

In a debate in parliament some MPs said Parliament was sovereign - which is an instrument - and other MPs pointed out this was at the will of the people.

BTW I think this thread is just another have a go at the English again.


Europe has it's own Civil Service where policy is formulated.
Europe has it's own parliament where MEPs vote for or against policy - You can watch Nigel Farage voting. It takes a fews seconds using a numbered card like Bingo.

The input from people who actually pay the taxes is Zero, Nada, Nothing.
No member of ANY member state can do anything at all to change the policy - so by definition this is a dictatorship.

Even if one person was able to galvanise enough support to topple a host government and get all the MEPs - then this wouldn't mean anything either because 1 country cannot override the other 27.

Basically the national vote and MPs are a waste of time - this also explains why despite us voting for one party or another they all do pretty much the same thing.

Europe has it's own military. Nation states assets and troops can be taken to implement foreign policy dictated from Brussels. This means the UK taxes paid to create UK armed forces equipment can be taken by the EU for their own purposes.


Personally I think this has fallen not very far from the fruity loopy nutty tree of doom.
 
??? Where do you get that idea?

The U.K. has about 10% of MEP's!
We have more representation than most other member states! Only Germany might have more.

Maybe you should try electing ones that do a better job?


Given the fact the UK democratically voted in predominately UKIP MEPs then THAT IS the ones we want doing a "Better Job".
 

caveman

Member
Location
East Sussex.
??? Where do you get that idea?

The U.K. has about 10% of MEP's!
We have more representation than most other member states! Only Germany might have more.

Maybe you should try electing ones that do a better job?

That's bollox.
The UK is the second most unrepresented with 875000 head per seat.
Second poorest represented only to France with 886000 residents per mep.
Maybe ours are trying to do what those who bothered to vote for them wants them to do!!!
 
Last edited:

Muck Spreader

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Limousin
Nope.

In a debate in parliament some MPs said Parliament was sovereign - which is an instrument - and other MPs pointed out this was at the will of the people.

BTW I think this thread is just another have a go at the English again.


Europe has it's own Civil Service where policy is formulated.
Europe has it's own parliament where MEPs vote for or against policy - You can watch Nigel Farage voting. It takes a fews seconds using a numbered card like Bingo.

The input from people who actually pay the taxes is Zero, Nada, Nothing.
No member of ANY member state can do anything at all to change the policy - so by definition this is a dictatorship.

Even if one person was able to galvanise enough support to topple a host government and get all the MEPs - then this wouldn't mean anything either because 1 country cannot override the other 27.

Basically the national vote and MPs are a waste of time - this also explains why despite us voting for one party or another they all do pretty much the same thing.

Europe has it's own military. Nation states assets and troops can be taken to implement foreign policy dictated from Brussels. This means the UK taxes paid to create UK armed forces equipment can be taken by the EU for their own purposes.


Personally I think this has fallen not very far from the fruity loopy nutty tree of doom.

Nope, what's that supposed to mean? The question is what is it.
 

Stuart J

Member
Location
Aberdeenshire
That's bollox.
The UK is the second most unrepresented with 875000 head per seat.
Second poorest represented only to France with 886000 residents per mep.
Maybe ours are trying to do what those who bothered to vote for them wants them to do!!!

We are degressively proportionally represented.

It's a reasonably fair system. How would you rather it done?
 

Stuart J

Member
Location
Aberdeenshire
Given the fact the UK democratically voted in predominately UKIP MEPs then THAT IS the ones we want doing a "Better Job".

UKIP MEP's do nothing.

The commission is legally obliged to answer every question that MEP's pose to it. So ukip go out of their way to slow down the system by filling it up with questions such as 'does water hydrate'

They do nothing to help.
Example below.
 

Attachments

  • image.png
    image.png
    197.9 KB · Views: 33

Foxhollow

Member
Location
Bury St Edmunds
Europe has it's own military. Nation states assets and troops can be taken to implement foreign policy dictated from Brussels. This means the UK taxes paid to create UK armed forces equipment can be taken by the EU for their own purposes.

.

Please get your facts right, The EU does not have its own military. Nation states assets and troops cannot be taken to implement foreign policy from Brussels.

The military of the European Union comprises the various cooperative structures that have been established between the armed forces of the member states, both intergovernmentally and within the institutional framework of the union; the Common Security and Defence Policy (CSDP) branch of the Common Foreign and Security Policy (CFSP).

The policy area of defence is principally the domain of nation states, and the main military alliance in Europe remains the intergovernmental
North Atlantic Treaty Organisation (NATO), which includes 22 of the EU member states together with four non-EU European countries, Albania, Iceland, Turkey and Norway, as well as the United States and Canada. The development of the CSDP with regard to the existing role of NATO is a contentious issue. The military form of European integration has however intensified in the beginning of the 21st century, bringing about the deployment of numerous CSDP operations and the establishment of EU battlegroups. The latter have however never been engaged in operations, and other, recent examples of military integration, such as the European corps, gendarmerie force and air transport command, are intergovernmental, and outside the institutional framework of the union.

The above demonstrates that any co-operation between EU member states with respect to military issues is purely at the request/ acceptance of the individual nation states. The EU does have the Common Security and Defence Policy (CSDP) branch of the Common Foreign and Security Policy (CFSP) but these have no power on individual nations military activities.
There are individuals from numerous EU countries that have over the years suggested a European Army but this has never got off the ground as there is no appetite for this type of policy at government level.
 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
Perhaps if we hadn't relinquished sovereignty to the EU, the MMB would still exist and the Royal Mail wouldn't have been privatised. Both of these actions were done at the behest of the EU to satisfy its competition rules against the better judgement of many British MP's.

Nobody wanted privatisation of Royal Mail. It wasn't on any party's manifesto and nobody here voted for it. Even my own very much right wing MP did not agree with it.

It was the result of loss of sovereignty. It was imposed by unaccountable foreign powers whether we liked it or not and there wasn't a damn thing we could do about it.
 

Make Tax Digital Software Poll

  • Quickbooks

    Votes: 33 16.8%
  • Sage

    Votes: 20 10.2%
  • Xero

    Votes: 89 45.4%
  • Other

    Votes: 54 27.6%

Man fined £300 for bonfire-related waste offences

  • 109
  • 0
Written by William Kellett from Agriland

court-640x360.jpg
A man has pleaded guilty at Newtownards Magistrates’ Court to waste offences relating to a bonfire next to the electrical sub-station on the Circular Road in Newtownards, Co. Down.

Gareth Gill (51) of Abbot’s Walk, Newtownards pleaded guilty to two charges under the Waste and Contaminated Land (Northern Ireland) Order 1997, for which he was fined £150 each and ordered to pay a £15 offender’s levy

On June 25, 2018, PSNI officers went to Gill’s yard, where they found a large amount of waste consisting of scrap wood, pallets, carpet and underlay.

Discussion with Northern Ireland Environment Agency (NIEA) officers confirmed the site...
Top