Sowing peas...!!

[Kiwi Pete]

As above..
I'm intending to sow a couple of old scruffy paddocks here, into peas.
Now, everyone will say "just don't"
which, after seeing folk trying to get them up and into a combine - I completely understand!
The intention here, is to cut them at the budding/flowering stage, as a high protein winter baleage crop.
We currently just feed silage to yearlings indoors, and growth could be better, to be honest- and I have about 850kg of peas here to plant.

What tips/ tricks / recommendations are out there for a novice?

I will be planting them with an APV PS 500 with the flex sowing wheels recommended for peas and beans, and will attempt to bury them a goodly amount.

No spray, no plough, just graze the heck out of the paddocks and get into them with this machine to cultivate

..and then sow two ways at half rate...

So:
What soil temp is ideal, I don't want to hang about as the grass is starting to really wind up?
What depth should I aim for, I can give them a scratch in with a cultivator if need be..
Sowing rate? I want them to be good and thick, as the whole intention of the experiment is to smother all the old dogstail and browntop during it's reproductive phase.. grass in the bales is not a problem but would like as much pea as possible -250kg/ha?
I will follow with a Cambridge roller and then a mob of cattle just to consolidate and give the regrowth a final lick.
@Kevtherev
(Yes it's hardly DD or zero-till, but I don't want to plough, as the paddocks will go into something else for winter, perhaps italian/RC/rape, and want them fairly firm)


Thanks in advance

Pete

 

[JD-Kid]

good luck with that idea
don't know it if will work too well with browntop as it's a acid loveing grass so PH maybe too low for peas
if a 1/2 arsed crop it may not choke out a lot and the grasses would take over again

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Cheers Pete!
I think it is just a paddock of abuse, it had quite a lot of compaction (the main one I want to crop) but the pH is actually one of the higher ones. I will make sure it gets plenty of calcium and TE you know what I mean

 

[JD-Kid]

yea it may work just bit worryed grass will come back and choke things
thick crop of raddishs may choke it out and losen up soil a bit but thats not the aim of what yer want to do tho

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I might give that a try at some stage, too...
But yep main goal is to generate something to bale up for stacking some extra beef on next crop of calves, with preferably minimum expense, and without anything that may hurt our chances if we decide to 'certify our place organic' in the next few years..
So that rules out giving the grass a bit of a "chemical top" with half rate glyphosate
And really rather leave the plough where it is, if possible, as I fear all sorts of weedy style grasses if I did that.. these ones were ploughed, and that's why the weetbix grass has come back faster than the ones that were roughed up with the grubber instead, IMHO . The last guy used to just rip into them with the grubber a couple of times, wait a couple of weeks and repeat and then roller drill the grass in
No pan though, as I subsoiled them at great depth last year, and pH is 5.8 in one and 6 in t'other.
On that note of radishes, could probably include them in my winter mix, but I prefer something I could get a few lighter grazings off rather than a swede style crop, it kinda goes against my living soil philosophies to create a bare paddock or compaction..
fortunately very few thistles other than a bedroom sized patch of cali/spreading thistle which I will kill.
300kg/ha then? I can soon get more seed.
It was tested at 100%germ last year (240kg/ha the reco rate)
So without trying a germ test, I will aim to up the rate by a bit. Seed is cheap. If it works (even in patches) then I'll learn something if not I'll learn something better

 

[JD-Kid]

intressing ground worked with roto spike cleaner than ground chisel plowed and harrowed etc

radishs i'm thinking of useing them on ground just smashed up eneff to get dirt to cover the seed and let them break the soil up a bit and choke some of the regrowth then graze and disc them in if had the feed would like to disc the whole lot in as a green crop maybe worth a crack as a trial i guess

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Gave the machine a trial run today, oversowing some extra grass/clover into quite an open younger paddock

And gave a big puddle in my yard a hurry up, it does a bit of a job even with no cut on the gangs on bare dirt, with the rake arrangement on behind.
Hopefully the beefies will take most of the grass off, I'll crank 10° of cut on and rip into it, hopefully over the weekend, and then plant early next week.
Will keep you posted @JD-Kid Will be an interesting failure if nowt else.

 

[JD-Kid]

why rake tines not covering tines with the L shaped bottom of tine
got a set of chain harrows ??
good looking tool by the gate HAHAHAHA

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Rake tines are a lot easier to find secondhand in contractors yards.. and I sort of needed the length to give light seed time to drop in front, if that makes sense?
It was either that or have the bar much lower and further behind, and I didn't want to knock posts over with something I can't see in the cab lights...
As for the plough, it will be soon shined up at the neighbour's place, I may pinch his rotospike if I can't bust up my turf enough.
Any ideas of a sowing rate for a thick crop?

 

[JD-Kid]

you will love roto spike
not with peas not had much to do with them

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Yep an amazing machine, I was going straight into sprayed off pasture last year with it. Only 2.7 metre but his wee 6420 wouldn't need any more, I nearly bought a 3M one off my last boss but pleased I didn't or my tractor would have melted..
Downside down here on this soil is cultivated soil really does not handle cattle at all, which is most of the reason for this faffing around with growing a crop in existing pasture, hopefully it will all knit back together and firm up a bit?
I gave it a subsoil, deep, last summer as it had a cracking plough pan.
Now it has settled back it really needs cropped and replaced with better plants.
It lies well though, into the sun and relatively sheltered by the hill, be a great paddock to stack winter lambs on. Or hoggets, will see which will work out best financially later on.

 

[JD-Kid]

done a paddock years ago subsoiled year before then roto spike in to grass just working top few inchs and it's ok but not great for cattle or big mobs in the wet

 

[Kiwi Pete]

done a paddock years ago subsoiled year before then roto spike in to grass just working top few inchs and it's ok but not great for cattle or big mobs in the wet

I would show you a picture of what the neighbour's dairy moos do, but don't want to upset our UK friends
Let's just say if they had longer legs they would just go deeper...
Then they roar around in it in the tractor delivering bales, instead of putting them out in summer
-thinks he's still in Ashburton

Guess who the lucky bloke is who gets to work it all back down, hence the link to the neck collar.. it takes most of the year to get my neck right
If this trial doesn't work then I'll definitely use the rotospike ahead of roundup, not being snobbish but I'm unconvinced that it doesn't hurt soil fungi if it will nuke mushrooms. So it's out, really.
The winter will probably just see lambs on it, but could have some cattle remain if they don't finish in time, just keep wee ones inside as I can stack a lot in there and nurture them.

 

[JD-Kid]

yea if summer cropped and then winter feed direct drilled in most cases ground holds up to it unless soaking wet
roto spike here tend to chisel plow frist
it is mainly matted turf tho to rip it to bits i think like power harrows etc hard on worms tho most old matted ground low or no worms any how so not a big deal

 

[Kiwi Pete]

This might bust up ok

 

[Kiwi Pete]

This is at full cut setting

Second time through

you can see it really give it a good shunt sideways.
I am going to take off the rake for the second pass as it is possibly going to tow too much turf around until I bust it up a bit more.
Soil is incredibly soft and friable under there, just really the roots holding it together. This machine should give the majority of the grass a good fright, a couple of passes to cultivate and then graze again; another couple to get the peas dribbled on, then a bury them with either the chain harrows or to the cultivator- probably try both just to see what works best.
It smells so good, with the back window open

 

[JD-Kid]

View attachment 583596
This is at full cut settingView attachment 583590
Second time through View attachment 583594 you can see it really give it a good shunt sideways.
I am going to take off the rake for the second pass as it is possibly going to tow too much turf around until I bust it up a bit more.
Soil is incredibly soft and friable under there, just really the roots holding it together. This machine should give the majority of the grass a good fright, a couple of passes to cultivate and then graze again; another couple to get the peas dribbled on, then a bury them with either the chain harrows or to the cultivator- probably try both just to see what works best.
It smells so good, with the back window open

if yer can get the grass to die off it may work a good rain it may just take off again
just part of me thinking may be very intresting to see how the peas go i would also wonder about a grain oats barley etc in there to help hold them up so they don't fall flat on the ground

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Oats and peas are just about ideal companions. Or triticale
Hopefully my grass will grow up with it and do the same job, and then all end up in the bale.
That will take care of a year's worth of browntop seedheads, hopefully
It has got some nice grass in it, but very little leafed clovers and rubbishy species as well
(We need a crossed-
fingers emoticon )

 

[JD-Kid]

Oats and peas are just about ideal companions. Or triticale
Hopefully my grass will grow up with it and do the same job, and then all end up in the bale.
That will take care of a year's worth of browntop seedheads, hopefully
It has got some nice grass in it, but very little leafed clovers and rubbishy species as well
(We need a crossed-
fingers emoticon )

will the seed heads be high eneff

 

[Kiwi Pete]

will the seed heads be high eneff

I hope so.
That's why I don't really want to rotospike it but I may have to yet, to level it out.
I chopped it up well enough that the sward won't be giving me a Christmas present
but it was up to the cover on the mower by November last year.
Might chuck some oats or barley in the mix and flog the neighbour's rotospike and be done with it
Otherwise it will annoy me for the rest of my life that I made a motocross paddock to save the worms the aerator has greatly amplified the subsoiler marks and I think it will be faster to give it a reasonably fast rotospike and get it in, soil temp is good in there now.

There's about 40 million of them so they'll be right they have all gone deeper as I found with my spade - good idea giving it a deep rip 6 months ahead. I found the bulk of them 10 to 15 inches down amazing