- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
Sowing peas...!!
- Thread starter Kiwi Pete
- Start date
Haha funny you should mention that book, I have a strange feeling the boys both had a copy of that one as a "five finger discount" from dad's days at Lincoln (which is the south island equivalent of say Harper Adams (with imagination))
There's nothing really that new, is there, folk just got reliant on horsepower, chemicals and other slower more reliable stuff got thrust aside.
It'll come back, with bells on, the current ways aren't going to be the best ways for much longer.
Dad told me "watch the UK farmers, they'll be like the canary in the cage" which may or may not be true.... he said reliance on stuff is generally the beginning of the end.
I tend to agree with that sentiment, but keep it to myself
It is a very good book there is 4 in total ithink they have been reprinted for the american regenerative ag people.Haha funny you should mention that book, I have a strange feeling the boys both had a copy of that one as a "five finger discount" from dad's days at Lincoln (which is the south island equivalent of say Harper Adams (with imagination))
There's nothing really that new, is there, folk just got reliant on horsepower, chemicals and other slower more reliable stuff got thrust aside.
It'll come back, with bells on, the current ways aren't going to be the best ways for much longer.
Dad told me "watch the UK farmers, they'll be like the canary in the cage" which may or may not be true.... he said reliance on stuff is generally the beginning of the end.
I tend to agree with that sentiment, but keep it to myself
I buy a lot of old farming books and am slowly (very slowly) working my way theough them. The best so far is ine called profitable sheep farming and was published in 1965. It was like reading a modern book anout all the "new" ideas like techno/rotational/defered/ root crop/ grazing. They had a self replacing flock of clun forest sheep they wrre breeding for all the modern things we would breed sheep for now. They even performance recorded them. Farmig seemed to get lost in the 70s with subsidies and chemicals and seems to be coming bsck around now. I bet theres ither books too but ive only finished that ine got a 4 foot stsck to go through... was going well till i joined fb and tff
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
Often wonder just how much of that was by accident, myself.
Even back as far as the 20's really, I know the generally popular excuse for fertiliser overuse is : the world would have starved without it
But now it's the farmers who are doing it tough - I think it was all by design, and I am as cynical and sceptical as anyone.
All about power, control, and money unfortunately. I probably shun more "tools" than are necessary.
But fools and tools are only a letter apart...
I'd rather see what I can manage, what I can do with free assets like solar power, and animals feet, and then pull out the stops after.
So many Mr Progressives go straight in with the chemistry set and 300 horsepower, and then have every health issue you can name.
Must be great to be that busy, you don't know you're a fool!!
I do think the fertilizer sprays and other companies have and are very good salesmen. Dad was talking the other day about roundup being fairly new and monsanto did an open evening in a local pub with a free bar all night. Thats as good a bribe as any to farmers round here
Everything comes down to money in the end. With more money they can push for more sales and manipulate more data to suit their product. No one should EVER believe a salesman. Their job is to sell NOT help you out or do you a favour. The amount of people isee taking advice off salesmen astounds me. They dont even go away and think about it for 5 minutes before writing a cheque
Thenlist of chemicals farmers spray their arable crops with here is stagerring no wonder they cant make any money.
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
Everyone is in sales (or should be)I do think the fertilizer sprays and other companies have and are very good salesmen. Dad was talking the other day about roundup being fairly new and monsanto did an open evening in a local pub with a free bar all night. Thats as good a bribe as any to farmers round here
Everything comes down to money in the end. With more money they can push for more sales and manipulate more data to suit their product. No one should EVER believe a salesman. Their job is to sell NOT help you out or do you a favour. The amount of people isee taking advice off salesmen astounds me. They dont even go away and think about it for 5 minutes before writing a cheque
Thenlist of chemicals farmers spray their arable crops with here is stagerring no wonder they cant make any money.
Isn't there an ad at the top of your page on here...?
But I agree, too many just don't or can't or will not see things holistically, keep repeating the mantra "spend money to make money"
And learning is free
JD-Kid
Member
- Location
- Akaroa.. New Zealand
greenlandThat's a mean crop!
Any idea which variety, looks a million bucks
paddock was deep ripped out of native a few years before disced a few times then rotospiked twice just a mat of turf season was wet early on then dryed off in summer
thats taken at the same time as the rape pic list to the right of the rape pic .. 2007 we do get a tad dry some years hence why selling stores
JD-Kid
Member
- Location
- Akaroa.. New Zealand
yep old books are good put in a mix few years back based from 1907 and guess what it works HAHAHA some times to move forward have to learn what crashed in the pastIt is a very good book there is 4 in total ithink they have been reprinted for the american regenerative ag people.
I buy a lot of old farming books and am slowly (very slowly) working my way theough them. The best so far is ine called profitable sheep farming and was published in 1965. It was like reading a modern book anout all the "new" ideas like techno/rotational/defered/ root crop/ grazing. They had a self replacing flock of clun forest sheep they wrre breeding for all the modern things we would breed sheep for now. They even performance recorded them. Farmig seemed to get lost in the 70s with subsidies and chemicals and seems to be coming bsck around now. I bet theres ither books too but ive only finished that ine got a 4 foot stsck to go through... was going well till i joined fb and tff
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
Holy crap Batman
Yeah, you can call that dry...
Strange, but by contrast the really peaty stuff down here is a bitch when it dries out, get rain and it beads up on top and the grass still dies
Nice to have a lump of soggy old clay at times!!
JD-Kid
Member
- Location
- Akaroa.. New Zealand
this stuff was like peat on top old roots and no soil so hard to get DD working in that kinda soil once worked have soil on top to get seeds to grow
Holy crap Batman
Yeah, you can call that dry...
Strange, but by contrast the really peaty stuff down here is a bitch when it dries out, get rain and it beads up on top and the grass still dies
Nice to have a lump of soggy old clay at times!!
it dose not realy like plowing tho hence why rotospike to bust up and mix also ripping helps get air down in to the layers cut off with the turf mat
Im not suprised it worked tbh. Old boys had to be good at what they did or they would have starved. Here especially i only have to look back to the60s before we joined the EU and subs went crazy to see things that were being done then being toted as new ideas now
arable farmers are going back right the way to the agricultural evolution to find proper rotations because they cant grow continuous wheat in a chemical bath any more. I think we are probably 20 years behind you down there when it comes to were we need to be. A lot of what we call old boys now (EU generation farmers who saw the best of it) will have to retire or die off before we can move forward at any speed now. Everyone is too focused on what chemicals and "proper" farming did for them theough the 70s to the 90s. Our grandfathers and great grandfathers would probably be more use as advisers and farmers now than a lot of people farming now. They didnt have subs or chemicals or big machinery to fall back on so would know what to do in a lot of cases.
Ps this is not meant to be a pro brexit or political post!! Less said about all that the better
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
Sometimes it's the principle, but natural selection cut most of those dodgy theories out eons ago
Most times it's "the farmer mentality"
("Balance - is for bikers") who just go full tit..... and there's your crash on it's way to happen.
Im curious now what was in that 110 year old mix?!
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
Some of the soil down here is damn near unworkable without the plough.
As you said that turf mat, try a shallow rotospiking and you still haven't found any soil, not enough for a seed anyway. Only things like weeds grow
Have to tip it over to find any at all.
That ploughing above was because: my neighbour knew Jeffro would "try to plough ten inches deep, going like a shower of s.hit, and make a huge mess"
(and liked my little ancient plough) which sort of confirms my theory in a way.
Sometimes newer is not better
Whereas if I tried burying your tussocks it would make a hoor of a mess!!
Which confirms your theory that old can be improved on
sh!t - we could make a great political party, don't ya know....
the booze brothers party
JD-Kid
Member
- Location
- Akaroa.. New Zealand
i will try and dig it out
there was the clifton park mix and i have seen they redone useing newer types the output was huge if i recall right better than ryegrass with bombed up with N
the mix i used was a revamp on that idea of things that held on during the dry years in NZ around the early 1900's
it was a alfalfa cocksfoot platain chicory mix
i added red clover to it
going on from that alfalfa did not like the grazeing so it's dropped and red takes it's place
https://www.ausweststephenseeds.com.au/Products/Rubitas
is the red i'm useing
cocksfoots doing trials to see what works best all newer types
platain useing
https://www.agricom.co.nz/products/herbs/plantain/agritonic
gets going earlyer some of the late flowering ones too slow in spring and the dry knocks it back a bit
http://www.seedforce.com.au/product.php?prodID=53
is the chicory used seems to last a bit longer than others used
i have also done the mix with useing a hybreed ryegrass in the mix for more spring growth lowering the cocksfoot amount could drop it fully as paddock only realy a 4-5 year idea the ones with no ryegrass will end up only cocksfoot after 5-6 year but the creeping red should hang in for longer than standards reds
white waste of time too dry
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
That's really interesting.
What time of year does your chicory go off to seed?
I have old paddocks here but the tool is the mower, top them early to get rid of the heads of the nasty old browntop and dogstail and fescues, and then I put them out of the round til the ryegrass gets it's seeds made
But unorthodox but some of the hybrid ryegrasses last for donkeys years if you let them reproduce and get a rain to chit the dropped seeds.
Not a very good picture but the one beside the peas with the town reservoir is into its 3rd year, the one below is 12 or 13.
And the stock would rather be in there than the new one, they don't seem to want to eat the red as you can see from all the patches it's gone bitter before it flowers (alkaloids apparently) so I'll let it, and let the bumbles pollinate it, and then I get more clovers.
Have left the hoggets in there to lamb, will let them graze it for a month, and it'll see no more sheep this year..
Hippy worm reduction you see..
Don't know I'm born down here in the evergreen, eh?
What time of year does your chicory go off to seed?
I have old paddocks here but the tool is the mower, top them early to get rid of the heads of the nasty old browntop and dogstail and fescues, and then I put them out of the round til the ryegrass gets it's seeds made
But unorthodox but some of the hybrid ryegrasses last for donkeys years if you let them reproduce and get a rain to chit the dropped seeds.
Not a very good picture but the one beside the peas with the town reservoir is into its 3rd year, the one below is 12 or 13.
And the stock would rather be in there than the new one, they don't seem to want to eat the red as you can see from all the patches it's gone bitter before it flowers (alkaloids apparently) so I'll let it, and let the bumbles pollinate it, and then I get more clovers.
Have left the hoggets in there to lamb, will let them graze it for a month, and it'll see no more sheep this year..
Hippy worm reduction you see..
Don't know I'm born down here in the evergreen, eh?
Attachments
A dry farm would scare me. That does sound likena good dry mix though from what ive read about drought mixes ovee here. Thankfully we dont get dry weather like you
JD-Kid
Member
- Location
- Akaroa.. New Zealand
we get winter rains but can get summer dry from dec to feb some times even out to may can be low rain fall the point country in the pic being dry gets about 16 inch avg most late winter early spring
the idea of the mix is the chicory subsoils in the frist few years and dies off the cocksfoot handles dry and pests alfalfa deep rooted and fixes N for the cocksfoot platain big root system so handles dry and good min take up for stock health
if useing hybreed ryegrass early spring growth for ewes milking
JD-Kid
Member
- Location
- Akaroa.. New Zealand
https://archive.org/details/cu31924003373804
that the older book i was talking about
kiwipete will know the writers name from the late nights drinking in the halls
that the older book i was talking about
kiwipete will know the writers name from the late nights drinking in the halls
- Location
- NSW, Newstralya
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
I know!!fudge me - look at the rocks . . .
You on your potting mix plains, yelling out "softcocks"
Used to disc a lot of rocky stuff at night and watch the sparks swirling around the discs.
Plus you can't actually see the drop which helps relax the situation.
Wasn't a f**king fiord at the bottom where I was though! Just more white rocks.....
Got about 200 acres all worked down nicely, farmer got the plane in to put the fert on, forgot to put the seed on......
So, I got to do it all twice.. he was a proper throbbing tool of a man that one.