Soya, whats the right way of it.

[tepapa]

Any ideas how?

Chickens obviously don't eat soya in the "wild". But do eat a lot of worms and bugs to get protein so I wonder if insects are the way to go? Or would that not be acceptable to vegans?

 

[Daniel]

Chickens obviously don't eat soya in the "wild". But do eat a lot of worms and bugs to get protein so I wonder if insects are the way to go? Or would that not be acceptable to vegans?

There are companies in the UK who will sell you a shipping container full of the equipment needed to breed insects for poultry to eat. But at the moment you'd need lots of shipping containers for any sort of scale and the market isn't showing any signs of wanting to pay for it.

 

[tepapa]

There are companies in the UK who will sell you a shipping container full of the equipment needed to breed insects for poultry to eat. But at the moment you'd need lots of shipping containers for any sort of scale and the market isn't showing any signs of wanting to pay for it.

Can't have it both ways, either they pay for insect protein or use soya

 

[ollie989898]

Neighbour grew soya this year , it held up and harvested well ,they made a good job of the crop , each pod only had 2 little beans (smaller than a skittle) in it and plants were only 1ft high at most , recon lupins would yeild better

In the fudging Mendips, it does make you wonder what exactly were they expecting to get mind.

Lupins much prefer acidic dirt and are pretty unreliable.

Beans are fine, good protein feed and cheap to grow if direct drilled.

 

[andybk]

In the fudging Mendips, it does make you wonder what exactly were they expecting to get mind.

Lupins much prefer acidic dirt and are pretty unreliable.

Beans are fine, good protein feed and cheap to grow if direct drilled.

they did alright , you would have been surprised , had everyone round here chattering wondering what it was after it chitted , strange plant when growing , came off ok though combine didnt hang about blink and you missed it, think if it didnt have the droughty start would have been a very useful crop

 

[ollie989898]

they did alright , you would have been surprised , had everyone round here chattering wondering what it was after it chitted , strange plant when growing , came off ok though combine didnt hang about blink and you missed it, think if it didnt have the droughty start would have been a very useful crop

I'd be hesitant to grow them again given that we had such a warm spring and summer. Shame they can't breed varieties with more vigour for the UK climate.

 

[Poorbuthappy]

Chickens obviously don't eat soya in the "wild". But do eat a lot of worms and bugs to get protein so I wonder if insects are the way to go? Or would that not be acceptable to vegans?

Nothing to do with a chicken is gonna be acceptable to a vegan.


But chickens without soya can be done.
Whether people are prepared to pay for it at scale is another question.

 

[Agrivator]

Neighbour grew soya this year , it held up and harvested well ,they made a good job of the crop , each pod only had 2 little beans (smaller than a skittle) in it and plants were only 1ft high at most , recon lupins would yeild better

But has anyone made a good job of growing Lupins?

 

[ollie989898]

Obviously monogastrics can't deal with a lot of crude protein of the sort a cow or sheep would routinely ingest. They need a higher quality protein that doesn't cost the Earth.

Fishmeal anyone?

 

[ollie989898]

But has anyone made a good job of growing Lupins?

I believe Simon Chiles has had a go with them?

I have seen some good crops of lupins in the past, in Devon, actually. But he was on slightly acidic and pretty sandy red dirt that is common in some parts of Devon. In Somerset and Dorset, where it's either clay as fudge or thin, alkaline chalks it's a non-starter.

 

[Simon Chiles]

Neighbour grew soya this year , it held up and harvested well ,they made a good job of the crop , each pod only had 2 little beans (smaller than a skittle) in it and plants were only 1ft high at most , recon lupins would yeild better

If your neighbour decides to grow soya again you could tell him that if was legal adding up to ( and no more) 20kg N/ha would help get them off to a flying start. Normally each pod has 4 beans in them and they aren’t very big. Yield is determined by the plant producing more branches. This is what my crop looked like this year. It wasn’t my best, but the no spring crop did very well around here this year.

 

[andybk]

If your neighbour decides to grow soya again you could tell him that if was legal adding up to ( and no more) 20kg N/ha would help get them off to a flying start. Normally each pod has 4 beans in them and they aren’t very big. Yield is determined by the plant producing more branches. This is what my crop looked like this year. It wasn’t my best, but the no spring crop did very well around here this year.
View attachment 929886View attachment 929887

to be fair it was hit by severe drought at wrong time , doubt any N would have gone anywhere , good looking crop you have there BTW

 

[Simon Chiles]

I believe Simon Chiles has had a go with them?

I have seen some good crops of lupins in the past, in Devon, actually. But he was on slightly acidic and pretty sandy red dirt that is common in some parts of Devon. In Somerset and Dorset, where it's either clay as fudge or thin, alkaline chalks it's a non-starter.

I think you’d describe my soils as clayey as fudge and have grown numerous good crops of Lupins, whilst you’re correct that they will grow well in acidic Sandy soils and won’t tolerate alkaline chalks I think it’s a mistake to write off any soil type with a pH of less than 7.9 for white Lupins. Once established they’re a lot easier to grow than beans, probably equal to beans on herbicide choices and I’ve never used a fungicide on Lupins. The seed would be a bit more than beans and yield slightly less but they’d be worth more. The yield of the following crop of wheat would be significantly higher after Lupins than after beans with less of a slug problem after the Lupins. If there was a better market for the Lupins ( I think it’s coming ) or I was growing a crop to feed to my own animals I’d choose to grow the Lupins over beans most of the time.

 

[Boysground]

The thing is soya is being used as an excuse for the failure of western governments and the chattering classes. In reality as someone else said on this thread it should be seen as the food product to solve some of the planet’s issues. It produces protein mainstay of everything’s diet and without the use of nitrogen made from fossil fuels.

It’s easy to blame the farmers who feed soya to cattle for the destruction of the rain forest to grow it. Those tell the world this choose not to look at the real facts, soya is grown all over the planet. My son works on a dairy farm in Canada, they grow 1000 acres of perfectly good rainforest friendly soya.

It is easy to see the trees falling and soya being grown in their place. But the real reason is that governments particularly want money some for themselves and some to get their population out of poverty and subsistence farming. Tree felling and ranching or cropping with soya is one way out of this.

What really needs to happen is investment into countries like Brazil to encourage policies that will stop the destruction of the rainforest and to educate the population. However it is much easier to blame it all on a farmer trying to make a living feeding his cattle or chickens and hide behind a keyboard telling the world about it. While at the same time eating some vegan friendly product made from soya.

Bg

 

[som farmer]

The modern 'green' movements have various crops, eg soya and palm oil, firmly in their sights, as 'bad' in their belief they are planet destroyers. They are also much better than us at getting their voices heard, in reality that means the end is nigh, and virtually nothing we can do/say is going to alter that. The s/mkts re-act to customers thoughts, they are now 'looking' at soya, we have to declare our soya use, and origin, you know what that means. On a purely non-farming point of view, can it seem right, to import 'foods' with a 'dodgy' heritage, into the country from 1000's of miles away ? Especially now we are going to be paid for a 'green' farming aspect. Many things are about to change, covid and brexit, have assured that, and we must adapt, also certain food production will gradually increase in importance, in a few years time ! It's the same old story, we have to produce what our customers, think they want, not what we think they want. One of the 'hidden' bonuses of covid, is the fact that people are connecting with UK ag, in a small, but positive way, we need to encourage that, eating out has declined, home cooking has increased, we need to fill that mkt, in a way that encourages them to by local/uk.
And we need to stop looking at farming, from our correct views, and start looking at it from our customers views, s/mkts have been so successful because they have adapted to public wants, so successful, they now encourage, and influence shoppers to think along the most profitable products, whereas we, haven't yet thrown of the smock and straw in mouth, vision of many.

 

[Lazy Sod]

The thing is soya is being used as an excuse for the failure of western governments and the chattering classes. In reality as someone else said on this thread it should be seen as the food product to solve some of the planet’s issues. It produces protein mainstay of everything’s diet and without the use of nitrogen made from fossil fuels.

It’s easy to blame the farmers who feed soya to cattle for the destruction of the rain forest to grow it. Those tell the world this choose not to look at the real facts, soya is grown all over the planet. My son works on a dairy farm in Canada, they grow 1000 acres of perfectly good rainforest friendly soya.

It is easy to see the trees falling and soya being grown in their place. But the real reason is that governments particularly want money some for themselves and some to get their population out of poverty and subsistence farming. Tree felling and ranching or cropping with soya is one way out of this.

What really needs to happen is investment into countries like Brazil to encourage policies that will stop the destruction of the rainforest and to educate the population. However it is much easier to blame it all on a farmer trying to make a living feeding his cattle or chickens and hide behind a keyboard telling the world about it. While at the same time eating some vegan friendly product made from soya.

So there you have it. Soya itself is not the problem, but just some of the countries and the methods that they use to produce it. The same as red meat really.

 

[ollie989898]

The thing is soya is being used as an excuse for the failure of western governments and the chattering classes. In reality as someone else said on this thread it should be seen as the food product to solve some of the planet’s issues. It produces protein mainstay of everything’s diet and without the use of nitrogen made from fossil fuels.

It’s easy to blame the farmers who feed soya to cattle for the destruction of the rain forest to grow it. Those tell the world this choose not to look at the real facts, soya is grown all over the planet. My son works on a dairy farm in Canada, they grow 1000 acres of perfectly good rainforest friendly soya.

It is easy to see the trees falling and soya being grown in their place. But the real reason is that governments particularly want money some for themselves and some to get their population out of poverty and subsistence farming. Tree felling and ranching or cropping with soya is one way out of this.

What really needs to happen is investment into countries like Brazil to encourage policies that will stop the destruction of the rainforest and to educate the population. However it is much easier to blame it all on a farmer trying to make a living feeding his cattle or chickens and hide behind a keyboard telling the world about it. While at the same time eating some vegan friendly product made from soya.

Bg

Quite right: if they weren't growing soya it would be corn or something else anyway.

 

[ollie989898]

I think you’d describe my soils as clayey as fudge and have grown numerous good crops of Lupins, whilst you’re correct that they will grow well in acidic Sandy soils and won’t tolerate alkaline chalks I think it’s a mistake to write off any soil type with a pH of less than 7.9 for white Lupins. Once established they’re a lot easier to grow than beans, probably equal to beans on herbicide choices and I’ve never used a fungicide on Lupins. The seed would be a bit more than beans and yield slightly less but they’d be worth more. The yield of the following crop of wheat would be significantly higher after Lupins than after beans with less of a slug problem after the Lupins. If there was a better market for the Lupins ( I think it’s coming ) or I was growing a crop to feed to my own animals I’d choose to grow the Lupins over beans most of the time.

I have no doubt your soils are clay as fudge but you are in a kinder part of the world. Around here, clay as fudge means if it gets wet it stays wet and it rains like fury a lot, particularly in spring.

I'd have much more confidence in growing soya in your part of the world or in Hampshire where the climate is a lot more sensible.

I'd also hazard a guess that your dirt is a lot better looked after. There is a lot of land around here that doesn't really want to be in arable cropping if we were being totally honest.

 

[Simon Chiles]

Quite right: if they weren't growing soya it would be corn or something else anyway.

Not necessarily so. Don’t forget that when they flatten great areas of rainforest that there isn’t any infrastructure for transporting large quantities of commodities cheaply, it’s all got to go long distances by truck. It isn’t economic to grow wheat or maize, the end price of them wouldn’t leave much after the transport costs, it’s the reason the grow soya. If you’re going to have high transport cost you’ve got to grow a valuable product to make it economic.

 

[Simon Chiles]

I have no doubt your soils are clay as fudge but you are in a kinder part of the world. Around here, clay as fudge means if it gets wet it stays wet and it rains like fury a lot, particularly in spring.

I'd have much more confidence in growing soya in your part of the world or in Hampshire where the climate is a lot more sensible.

I'd also hazard a guess that your dirt is a lot better looked after. There is a lot of land around here that doesn't really want to be in arable cropping if we were being totally honest.

We can get significant levels of rainfall here, some years up to a metre. I reckon we get nearly double the amount they would in East Anglia. Being surrounded by trees doesn’t help the situation here also as we have huge pigeon numbers, a problem for both Lupins and Soya at the establishment stage.
Don’t underestimate the rooting power of a Lupin. I had an area of a field that Network Rail used all Winter as a compound whilst they installed a new bridge. They put down aluminium tracking over the area and it had plenty of 8 wheelers, excavators and a huge crane driving all over it. They finished very late in the spring and I had intended to sub soil it afterwards but, because it was so late in the season, I chanced just direct drilling in a cover crop. Basically it was made up of any seed I had left over, mustard, vetch, triticale, Lupins and oats. Only the Lupins grew, and the crop was good enough to warrant taking the combine down for even although it was only about an acre in area. Since then I’ve never deep cultivated that bit and you couldn’t tell the difference in subsequent crops from the rest of the field. It isn’t something I’d advocate but in a scenario where I didn’t have any other options it payed off.