Spirituality and farming

[martian]

That title will put a lot of farmers off from reading this thread, but I've stuck it in the Holistic section for good reason. No-tillers are often accused of having a religious zeal (and a strangely attired priesthood), and this is perhaps an extension of that accusation. It came to me after reading Charles Massy's brilliant book Call of the Reed Warbler which @Farmer Roy drew to our attention in various other threads. Spoiler alert...CotRW's not all about spirituality, but he does mention towards the end of the book that regenerative farmers do find that they get a spiritual sense the deeper they get involved with the holistic approach to farming as they realise that everything is connected, from the humblest bacteria; through our crops and weeds, domesticated animals and wildlife and on to our customers and ourselves.

I'm not explaining it very well (you'll have to read the book), but it brought me up short as most of us would rather swim across a slurry lagoon than talk about spirituality. However, I do feel that there is something in what he's saying, as he points out that it is only through an enlightened agriculture that we can solve most of the most pressing problems that the world faces today, like climate change, multi-species extinction, desertification, human health degeneration etc. Only farmers can sort all these problems, but we can't do it by carrying on doing the same stuff that got us into the mess in the first place.

Gabe Brown quotes Don Campbell in his wonderful book Dirt to Soil : 'If you want to make small changes, change how you do things; if you want to make big changes, change how you see things' . How are you all seeing things?

 

[Kevtherev]

Getting folk to try new/old ideas is the most difficult job.

 

[Clive]

That title will put a lot of farmers off from reading this thread, but I've stuck it in the Holistic section for good reason. No-tillers are often accused of having a religious zeal (and a strangely attired priesthood), and this is perhaps an extension of that accusation. It came to me after reading Charles Massy's brilliant book Call of the Reed Warbler which @Farmer Roy drew to our attention in various other threads. Spoiler alert...CotRW's not all about spirituality, but he does mention towards the end of the book that regenerative farmers do find that they get a spiritual sense the deeper they get involved with the holistic approach to farming as they realise that everything is connected, from the humblest bacteria; through our crops and weeds, domesticated animals and wildlife and on to our customers and ourselves.

I'm not explaining it very well (you'll have to read the book), but it brought me up short as most of us would rather swim across a slurry lagoon than talk about spirituality. However, I do feel that there is something in what he's saying, as he points out that it is only through an enlightened agriculture that we can solve most of the most pressing problems that the world faces today, like climate change, multi-species extinction, desertification, human health degeneration etc. Only farmers can sort all these problems, but we can't do it by carrying on doing the same stuff that got us into the mess in the first place.

Gabe Brown quotes Don Campbell in his wonderful book Dirt to Soil : 'If you want to make small changes, change how you do things; if you want to make big changes, change how you see things' . How are you all seeing things?

I am about as unreligious as it’s possible to be - but I do get what your saying

I’ve certainly become much more conscious and concerned about the fragility of our planet and environment- I think that’s partly down to increased understanding of nature that comes from notill but also from having children and concern for the mess we have created for them

 

[SilliamWhale]

Well as a counter opinion (I'm reading The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins at the moment) and having spend a bit of time in the Holy Land earlier this year has reaffirmed this rather than the opposite - Religion is a load of old rubbish. I would quite like it not to be sometimes, but it is just nonsense on stilts.

Rather than spirituality I really think rationality is a stronger impulse but I would say sometimes we don't teach ourselves or allow ourselves enough how to think.

And I am a fan of Holism and I am a fan of regenerative agriculture

 

[SilliamWhale]

I am about as unreligious as it’s posable to be - but I do get what your saying

I’ve certainly become much more conscious and concerned about the fragility of our planet and environment- I think that’s partly down to increased understanding of nature that comes from notill but also from having children and concern for the mess we have created for them

You'll be selling your racing cars then!

 

[Clive]

You'll be selling your racing cars then!

There are some things I am religious about !

 

[Kiwi Pete]

A lot of the time it boils down to the way we've been taught to care for things.

Agriculture is not immune from materialism and a heap of pride - which is why there are two distinct agricultures forming

 

[Macsky]

That title will put a lot of farmers off from reading this thread, but I've stuck it in the Holistic section for good reason. No-tillers are often accused of having a religious zeal (and a strangely attired priesthood), and this is perhaps an extension of that accusation. It came to me after reading Charles Massy's brilliant book Call of the Reed Warbler which @Farmer Roy drew to our attention in various other threads. Spoiler alert...CotRW's not all about spirituality, but he does mention towards the end of the book that regenerative farmers do find that they get a spiritual sense the deeper they get involved with the holistic approach to farming as they realise that everything is connected, from the humblest bacteria; through our crops and weeds, domesticated animals and wildlife and on to our customers and ourselves.

I'm not explaining it very well (you'll have to read the book), but it brought me up short as most of us would rather swim across a slurry lagoon than talk about spirituality. However, I do feel that there is something in what he's saying, as he points out that it is only through an enlightened agriculture that we can solve most of the most pressing problems that the world faces today, like climate change, multi-species extinction, desertification, human health degeneration etc. Only farmers can sort all these problems, but we can't do it by carrying on doing the same stuff that got us into the mess in the first place.

Gabe Brown quotes Don Campbell in his wonderful book Dirt to Soil : 'If you want to make small changes, change how you do things; if you want to make big changes, change how you see things' . How are you all seeing things?

I’m about a quarter of the way into COTRW, quite enjoying it. Read Dirt to Soil, Newman-Turner & Voisin, Allan Savoury’s Holistic Management next. I’m finding more and more that the agriculture I was taught (BSc) was just hogwash. The more you learn about the natural environment, as with all good teaching, the more you realise you didn’t know!

I’m a Christian of the Protestant Presbyterian persuasion(not sure that matters), and I do find that the regenerative Ag scene aligns well with my beliefs. It appreciates the amazing complexities and symbioses in nature, it negates the greed of those looking to make huge amounts of money from the self perpetuating sales of various chemicals ‘needed’ to farm profitably these days.

I can’t say I feel hugely spiritually connected to the soil itself, I find my spiritual connection in prayer, good preaching and worship (

), but I definitely feel that farming in a manner sympathetic with God’s created order is to be much promoted, for the main reason that it benefits all of his greatest creation, mankind.

 

[SilliamWhale]

I’m about a quarter of the way into COTRW, quite enjoying it. Read Dirt to Soil, Newman-Turner & Voisin, Allan Savoury’s Holistic Management next. I’m finding more and more that the agriculture I was taught (BSc) was just hogwash. The more you learn about the natural environment, as with all good teaching, the more you realise you didn’t know!

I’m a Christian of the Protestant Presbyterian persuasion(not sure that matters), and I do find that the regenerative Ag scene aligns well with my beliefs. It appreciates the amazing complexities and symbioses in nature, it negates the greed of those looking to make huge amounts of money from the self perpetuating sales of various chemicals ‘needed’ to farm profitably these days.

I can’t say I feel hugely spiritually connected to the soil itself, I find my spiritual connection in prayer, good preaching and worship (

), but I definitely feel that farming in a manner sympathetic with God’s created order is to be much promoted, for the sole reason that it benefits all of his greatest creation, mankind.

Farming is the worst invention ever for Gods created order!!

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I don't adhere to any particular faith but it definitely seems it was all in The Book, all along....

I do very little work but feel hugely connected to what I do do, it seems to have such a huge impact when you align yourself with nature - as opposed to trying to beat it down and control it

So I guess that's my spiritual connection, I feel much closer to my forebears when I'm doing very little, observing changes, and taking the kids fishing than I possibly would sat in the tractor topping or ploughing - even though they occasionally did these things.
One thing's for sure, I wouldn't or couldn't be without livestock - these are timeless tools IMO.
Man's tools have no soul.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Farming is the worst invention ever for Gods created order!!

It is, or certain agricultures are.
It seems very much about limiting diversity, death, control, and preventing natural selection/ evolution from happening - which are all very much in the face of the natural kingdom.
Life is life, in all it's many forms..

 

[martian]

A lot of it is getting away from the old 'what am I going to kill today' mentality that a lot of modern farming seems to involve, as KP says, working with nature and not against it

Getting folk to try new/old ideas is the most difficult job.

It is probably enough to work out your own way of regenerating the landscape so that there is a template for others to follow when they are ready.

 

[Macsky]

Farming is the worst invention ever for Gods created order!!

Farming is the original created occupation! Gen 2v15.

 

[Farmer Roy]

Err, to me, my interest in farming / agriculture, as I am getting older ( 53 ) is becoming ALL about spirituality & "connection to country"
Personally, I couldn't really care less about "farming" as such, it just doesn't float my boat anymore.
It is the working with nature / environment, feeling connected - not just to MY land, but the wider environment as such - that is what drives me
I am starting to understand the importance of & the Aboriginal "connection" to land & country that goes beyond just financial interests.
That is what has originally encouraged me on the path of regenerative Ag
It also means I am grieving quite badly at the moment, watching country slowly dehydrate & die . . .

 

[Farmer Roy]

"Christian" faith can work both ways with land management

It can be Gods wonderful creation that we need to look after

OR - it can be Gods gift to us, the world revolves around us as we are Gods special creation, & land/ nature is ours to do what we want without regard to the consequences - "kill them all & let God decide" style of thinking

Personally, I'm thinking more about Gaia & Mother Earth

 

[Daniel]

(

)

Sounds like human bagpipes!

Farming is the worst invention ever for Gods created order!!

Without it there would be mass starvation, which according to the final verses of Genesis 1, wasn’t Gods intention - be fruitful and multiply - what the text does suggest is that as creation is a gift from God it should be ‘used’ responsibly.

So in a way it could be said that with his conference, @martian is doing the Lords work!

“So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so. And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.”
‭‭

 

[Macsky]

"Christian" faith can work both ways with land management

It can be Gods wonderful creation that we need to look after

OR - it can be Gods gift to us, the world revolves around us as we are Gods special creation, & land/ nature is ours to do what we want without regard to the consequences - "kill them all & let God decide" style of thinking

Personally, I'm thinking more about Gaia & Mother Earth

Rather than looking at what people do, which is never the best example, you would need to read and study the Bible yourself and draw your own conclusions. I would encourage you to appreciate the Creator rather than the created.

 

[CornishTone]

Someone had to...

 

[SilliamWhale]

Err, to me, my interest in farming / agriculture, as I am getting older ( 53 ) is becoming ALL about spirituality & "connection to country"
Personally, I couldn't really care less about "farming" as such, it just doesn't float my boat anymore.
It is the working with nature / environment, feeling connected - not just to MY land, but the wider environment as such - that is what drives me
I am starting to understand the importance of & the Aboriginal "connection" to land & country that goes beyond just financial interests.
That is what has originally encouraged me on the path of regenerative Ag
It also means I am grieving quite badly at the moment, watching country slowly dehydrate & die . . .

I'm interested in Religion and "Spirituality" - although I don't like the latter term its a bit like "sustainable" - no one really can define it. But I pretty much think Religion was basically a way of imposing order, hierarchy and structure on peoples lives - sometimes oppressively (look how many people get killed in the Old Testament, got ritually sacrificed in South America, burned at the stake etc.) and sometimes more benignly - the 17-20C Avuncular Rural Vicar image has done a lot to promote the Christianity in the modern west and I feel many cling to that idea for comfort. We give organised religion too much a free ride I'm afraid.

But for me Spirituality just comes back to the idea of Love really. All this talk of feeling connected, connection, mother earth, gaia etc comes down to a persons feeling of love and how they choose to frame and direct their love - for some its football, for some its family, for some its land, for some its all three etc. .

Buts its a personal feeling its not a tangible one but its no less valid for that. I can't say that religion is harmless because it not, there is a lot to learn from the Holy Books for sure (all monotheistic religion come from the same source anyway and were created for similar reasons) but fundamentally spirituality its all about how you choose to frame your thoughts about things and you can look to others for help on how to frame those thoughts (ie religion can help there) or you can do it on your own (possibly more of the spiritual aspect).

 

[SilliamWhale]

Sounds like human bagpipes!



Without it there would be mass starvation, which according to the final verses of Genesis 1, wasn’t Gods intention - be fruitful and multiply - what the text does suggest is that as creation is a gift from God it should be ‘used’ responsibly.

So in a way it could be said that with his conference, @martian is doing the Lords work!

“So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so. And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.”
‭‭

Yes that sounds great in 10BC in Jericho but I'm not so convinced in 2019.