Spirituality and farming

[Macsky]

One of the abiding themes in Charles Massy's book is that we are living in the Anthropocene, which is basically a man-made geological epoch. It has superceded the Holocene, in which early man followed the retreating glaciers as the ice-age ended. These primitive humans had a relatively benigh impact on the planet, but now we are witnessing mass species extinction, global climate change, desertification and all the other horrors, which has given rise to the term Anthropocene. In large part this is because we view ourselves as above the rest of creation (witness the quote from Genesis above).

Now I love our local Church, but increasingly more as a building and a concept than what it teaches. I feel we need to see the world for what it is, a beautiful self-organising and incredibly complex ecosystem which we can work with to feed and clothe ourselves, having seen what happens when we try to work against it. By any ethical standards, most facets of industrial agriculture are simply wrong, so we need to find ways of doing it right if we are going to live the good life ourselves and, at the same time, heal the planet.

Unfortunately our culture as it stands is ego driven, we've moved on a bit from the worst excesses of the ghastly 'greed is good' years of the 1980's, but I suspect we'll need to sink a bit lower before there's a mass movement to get Gaia back on track. The problem is, the deeper you sink into the 'material world' the further you get from the spirit world, where we can connect with the rest of creation as equals. I think there's an important link here with the Knepp experiment (talked about in the Wilding thread elsewhere on the Holistic forum), little islands of wilderness help us make this connection.

Aldo Leopold and others talk about a 'Land Ethic', which makes sense to me. Land ownership is a slippery slope, if it means you can abuse the land however much you like. Every acre is part of Gaia, it needs treating as such. Having that spiritual connection helps the farmer to 'do the right thing'.

I wouldn’t write off the church because of alleged misinterpretation of a passage in Genesis. The bible needs to be taken in context and as a whole, interpreted by itself, ie if your interpretation of one passage is quite contradictory to other parts, then it is probably wrong. The whole book carries the same themes and message throughout.

The bible’s main focus is the story of man’s relationship with God, past, present and future, and certainly does not exist to promote the worship of created things, but following sound biblical doctrine and principles should put you in no way at odds with the natural environment, what is good for the natural environment is good for us all, and falls under ‘love your neighbour as yourself’, Mark 12v21

‘Dominion’ shouldn’t be a dirty word, what else is grazing animals holistically in mobs on diverse pastures other than dominion? It is more our sinful nature that makes dominion a bad thing. Rather than submitting to God, have we not all wanted, rather, to be gods ourselves? Was this not the original temptation in the garden?

Dominion over the animals is explained quite well here:

https://www.gotquestions.org/dominion-over-animals.html

It’s quite a good website actually.

 

[martian]

Don't worry, I'm not writing off the Bible. Thanks for your interpretation, it makes a lot of sense. My point was really that in most of the developed Christian world, the majority of people see themselves as apart from nature, above it even.

I have more problems with St Paul than Genesis, but that's another story

 

[Poorbuthappy]

@martian you may like Joel Salatin's book which explores what it is to be a Christian and an environmentalist and how the 2 should fit together naturally, whilst lamenting the way particularly American (but not exclusively) Christianity has abused the environment and our food system.

 

[Dan Powell]

I find it interesting that humans have been about for at least 2 million years, homo sapians for around 300 thousand years, agriculture for around 10 thousand years and monotheism for a similar length of time. Most "primitive" societies managed to co-exist with the rest of the biosphere for many times the length of our entire agricultural history, but we are taught in schools that agriculture was a great leap forward for our species. It was in fact an enslavement of the majority in the service of the elites. We didn't just domesticate animals, we domesticated ourselves. A hunter gatherer would typically spend 2-4 hours a day in search of food and even that would be fun. My kids enjoy nothing more than picking fruit and playing at hunting, but maths homework is another story.

Religion is part of the framework of control and we as farmers are another part (by putting the food behind a pay wall for the majority so they have to work). The final tool of enslavement which is increasingly important for the elites is money/debt. Notice how the rich ended up richer after the financial crisis of 2008 not poorer.

What does this have to do with spirituality? Well the original human religion was animism prior to agriculture , which sees all of nature as spiritual. There are gods (small g) everywhere - in every stream, forest and creature, and they must be respected. The idea of farming is completely contrary to that so when we took up farming we had to leave the garden of Eden. We had eaten of the tree of knowledge of who should live (us, our animals and crops) and who should die (everything else).

We know we should try to restore the garden (which is what rewilding is really about) but this conflicts with our massive and growing population.

The spiritual conflict within everyone who cares about wildlife today is connected to these issues. How to allow people to live a good life without destroying the basis for that life?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I find it interesting that humans have been about for at least 2 million years, homo sapians for around 300 thousand years, agriculture for around 10 thousand years and monotheism for a similar length of time. Most "primitive" societies managed to co-exist with the rest of the biosphere for many times the length of our entire agricultural history, but we are taught in schools that agriculture was a great leap forward for our species. It was in fact an enslavement of the majority in the service of the elites. We didn't just domesticate animals, we domesticated ourselves. A hunter gatherer would typically spend 2-4 hours a day in search of food and even that would be fun. My kids enjoy nothing more than picking fruit and playing at hunting, but maths homework is another story.

Religion is part of the framework of control and we as farmers are another part (by putting the food behind a pay wall for the majority so they have to work). The final tool of enslavement which is increasingly important for the elites is money/debt. Notice how the rich ended up richer after the financial crisis of 2008 not poorer.

What does this have to do with spirituality? Well the original human religion was animism prior to agriculture , which sees all of nature as spiritual. There are gods (small g) everywhere - in every stream, forest and creature, and they must be respected. The idea of farming is completely contrary to that so when we took up farming we had to leave the garden of Eden. We had eaten of the tree of knowledge of who should live (us, our animals and crops) and who should die (everything else).

We know we should try to restore the garden (which is what rewilding is really about) but this conflicts with our massive and growing population.

The spiritual conflict within everyone who cares about wildlife today is connected to these issues. How to allow people to live a good life without destroying the basis for that life?

It's quite apparent growing up in NZ just how much closer the Maori people were to what you describe, simply because their currency was food and skills.
Their concept of taonga (treasure) was largely completely foreign to the early settlers, likewise the concept that land wasn't "owned" by individuals.

So it's always been an interesting conflict of interest to be a part of, as a New Zealander - on one hand the modern concept that money must change hands, the other hand that the natural world and health of it are the real treasures to upkeep

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Taonga https://g.co/kgs/wtpzs6

 

[martian]

Taking this idea to the next level...I now find myself on a pilgrimage. Walking the last stretch of the Camino in northern Spain and because it is Holy Week, or Semana Santa as they say here, the path is very busy, holiday week here and they want to get to Santiago for Easter.

Interesting business is a pilgrimage. It draws all sorts, people who just fancy a long walk, people who are at a crossroads in their lives, the faithful who are acting almost on impulse and a lot of crashing bores . Part of the experience is learning to love all these oddballs.

Some stunning countryside, this bit of Galicia is very like Wales, lots of small dairy farms struggling to make a living...lot of land for sale. Could make a decent living catering for rich pilgrims like us, but they'd have to put up with an endless stream of customers staying for no more than an hour or at most a night.

Like everywhere else, the soil is being horribly abused, which is painful to see. But there's lots of birds and butterfies that are rare visitors to our part of the world so exciting to me...blackcaps and redstarts, hoopoes and nightingales , harriers and swallowtails. Enough about my holidays I think...

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Taking this idea to the next level...I now find myself on a pilgrimage. Walking the last stretch of the Camino in northern Spain and because it is Holy Week, or Semana Santa as they say here, the path is very busy, holiday week here and they want to get to Santiago for Easter.

Interesting business is a pilgrimage. It draws all sorts, people who just fancy a long walk, people who are at a crossroads in their lives, the faithful who are acting almost on impulse and a lot of crashing bores . Part of the experience is learning to love all these oddballs.

Some stunning countryside, this bit of Galicia is very like Wales, lots of small dairy farms struggling to make a living...lot of land for sale. Could make a decent living catering for rich pilgrims like us, but they'd have to put up with an endless stream of customers staying for no more than an hour or at most a night.

Like everywhere else, the soil is being horribly abused, which is painful to see. But there's lots of birds and butterfies that are rare visitors to our part of the world so exciting to me...blackcaps and redstarts, hoopoes and nightingales , harriers and swallowtails. Enough about my holidays I think...

Time for a "views from Galicia" thread?

 

[martian]

Im afraid i havent taken many snaps...got the images in my head...

 

[martian]

Looks like we've fallen in with the KKK ...Maundy Thursday in a small town, everyone crammed into the church and then processing about the place to the stirring sound of bagpipes and drums.

 

[martian]

Given me a few ideas for new costumes for the no-till priesthood as there seems to be a reluctance to don @Silliamwale 's mankinis

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Given me a few ideas for new costumes for the no-till priesthood as there seems to be a reluctance to don @Silliamwale 's mankinis

Are such pointy hats going to be this years free gifts at Groundswell check in?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Those pointy hats would be just the thing for keeping one's bats firmly in the belfry

handy compaction probe/lightning receiver as well

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Looks like we've fallen in with the KKK ...Maundy Thursday in a small town, everyone crammed into the church and then processing about the place to the stirring sound of bagpipes and drums.View attachment 789436View attachment 789438

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!

 

[onesiedale]

Im afraid i havent taken many snaps...got the images in my head...

My cousin is Spanish and lives out there where you are walking. (The path runs right past their house.)
He is a vet, but trying to follow his passion for photography as a full time career.
Take a look at his website / Facebook for a whole gallery of the region
https://www.jorgeruizphotography.com/bio

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

My cousin is Spanish and lives out there where you are walking. (The path runs right past their house.)
He is a vet, but trying to follow his passion for photography as a full time career.
Take a look at his website / Facebook for a whole gallery of the region
https://www.jorgeruizphotography.com/bio

Some gorgeous photos there @onesiedale that would sell well as wall posters

 

[Old McDonald]

But to the Genesis era farmer, subduing the earth meant hand hoeing weeds and tilling the earth with a bullock and plough. His dominion over the animals was herding some goats and cattle across scrub land.

That is current day reality for many in this part of the world, although they tend to use donkeys or mules. I have not seen a bovine in harness for about 5 years, and then it was a cow. Wandering with goats and sheep (no cattle) is also a daily occupation for most - they simply do not own enough land to have animals without doing so.

 

[onesiedale]

Some gorgeous photos there @onesiedale that would sell well as wall posters

You're right. Some of his wildlife photography is absolutely stunning