Spring sown crop for lambs

[Bury the Trash]

Would you have to pay royalties on cereals grown for grazing I wonder? If so, presumably FSS rules would apply so that you couldn’t grow from someone else’s feed heap?

that's the trouble.

just buy some seed dearer but still cheaper than everything except irg or wester's

 

[Sheepfog]

Would you have to pay royalties on cereals grown for grazing I wonder? If so, presumably FSS rules would apply so that you couldn’t grow from someone else’s feed heap?

FSS is only for crops taken to harvest I think, as set out on gov.uk. The BSPB aren’t keen on that definition as it implies no royalties are due on home saved seed for cover crops!

 

[ollie989898]

Those are hybrid rape/kale crosses
Appin leafy turnip is designed as a quick forage crop post first cut.
How old is the pasture?
Just thinking on wire worm for your following wheat crop.

Fudge the wireworm: it be ok, has to be a hell of a wireworm outbreak to nail 350-400 seeds of wheat per metre. Maize, with 40-45 seeds a square metre, now you are right to be worried.

Drill the wheat in September if at all possible so it gets going into warm soil. Once it has tillered out wireworm can't touch it.

 

[ollie989898]

As long as the grass didn’t swamp the brassicas then yes it would work fine.

Any half decent IRG or hybrid is gonna outrun a newly established brassica crop IME.

 

[JD-Kid]

There was a trial/competition locally a coup of years ago, based om just that scenario. One of the teams was adamant that you can't beat creep feeding on the old pp too, so that ended up as a control if you like. The winning team DD'ed a Westerwold/IRG/brassica mix iirc, the advantage being that the lambs took to it readily and didn't see a check when they went onto it (as can happen with changing the diet onto straight brassicas).
I had a bunch on a similar mix last year (drilled post Winter Barley) and was astounded at how well they did, but the grass was left until the Spring before taking out for beet. I repeated it this year, and the dry weather meant that there wasn't much keep by the Autumn, but there will be a good early bite in the Spring as it's still growing now. Seed cost is about £27/ac, so it needs to supply a lot more than a straight (cheap) brassica mix. I'm planning on doing the same with an earlier drilling in sprayed off grass next year.

Another option would be a grazing turnip like Appin, which will grow as fast as rape/turnips, but will regrow after grazing if backfenced. I have a bit in my stubble turnip fields as a trial (thanks to Germinal and @Kevtherev ) and it looks to have plenty of good leaf there. If it did that from an earlier drilling, and regrew several times, it could be a valuable Autumn finisher crop. IIRC @JD-Kid has been growing it for a while?

I tried a bit of Protoplus too, and it does provide a lot of high quality bulk with little/no fert, but at around £50/ac for seed it's priced itself out for me. If it was staying in for the following year, the IRG in that mix certainly pushes up some grass (although thin in that mix), but if coming out for WW in October, the seed cost would be prohibitive IMO.

yea try them a few times I think the likes of pasja maybe breed out of them not sure but same multi graze. type crop
had some lambs years ago on rape that had a heap of clover. grow in it as well lambs done. very well on it

breaking in ground used to always sow. grass rape mix to cover all bases lambs did ok on it. but the grass clover was better

grew raphno last year. impressed with it
https://www.pggwrightsonseeds.com/Crops/Brassicas/Raphno/Pallaton
but it's a bit high priced to be fair some other. hybrid rape crosses alot cheeper

 

[Great In Grass]

yea try them a few times I think the likes of pasja maybe breed out of them not sure but same multi graze. type crop
had some lambs years ago on rape that had a heap of clover. grow in it as well lambs done. very well on it

breaking in ground used to always sow. grass rape mix to cover all bases lambs did ok on it. but the grass clover was better

grew raphno last year. impressed with it
https://www.pggwrightsonseeds.com/Crops/Brassicas/Raphno/Pallaton
but it's a bit high priced to be fair some other. hybrid rape crosses alot cheeper

With DLF's recent acquisition of PGG Wrighton Seeds we may see the likes of Pallaton Raphno here in the UK with others too (if suitable for the UK).

 

[JD-Kid]

With DLF's recent acquisition of PGG Wrighton Seeds we may see the likes of Pallaton Raphno here in the UK with others too (if suitable for the UK).

yea could see it turn up over there not sure how much seed about we got some last year. and it was like pulling teeth to get it
says being released 2018 so might be. good stocks of it
found lambs loved it the paddocks had last year were a bit patchy due to dry. but went ok. did not have other rapes in to compare tho so hard to say
I do know grew well and got alot of grazing off it. did not. see. any rape burn on lambs also. found. when worked up stems and roots broke down fast compared to the likes of. dry kale stems that can take a while to rot

 

[neilo]

yea try them a few times I think the likes of pasja maybe breed out of them not sure but same multi graze. type crop
had some lambs years ago on rape that had a heap of clover. grow in it as well lambs done. very well on it

breaking in ground used to always sow. grass rape mix to cover all bases lambs did ok on it. but the grass clover was better

grew raphno last year. impressed with it
https://www.pggwrightsonseeds.com/Crops/Brassicas/Raphno/Pallaton
but it's a bit high priced to be fair some other. hybrid rape crosses alot cheeper

That looks like some impressive stuff, on the company blurb anyway. Did you grow it as a pure stand, or in a mix?

I have been putting in a Westerwold/IRG/Winfred mix for Autumn finishing, but I know there will be better yielding options than the Winfred these days. Do you think the Raphno would replace the Winfred in that mix, without getting swamped by the grasses?

DLF fancy running a trial @Great In Grass , if you can get any seed? A mix of 90% IRG (variety from the Protoplus, whose name escapes me) and 10% Raphno maybe?

 

[Great In Grass]

yea could see it turn up over there not sure how much seed about we got some last year. and it was like pulling teeth to get it
says being released 2018 so might be. good stocks of it
found lambs loved it the paddocks had last year were a bit patchy due to dry. but went ok. did not have other rapes in to compare tho so hard to say
I do know grew well and got alot of grazing off it. did not. see. any rape burn on lambs also. found. when worked up stems and roots broke down fast compared to the likes of. dry kale stems that can take a while to rot

As you say new for 2018 with you so they are probably very busy multiplying the seed up to satify home demand although if it suits here they may grow some for seed in the UK too. We shall have to wait and see.

 

[JD-Kid]

That looks like some impressive stuff, on the company blurb anyway. Did you grow it as a pure stand, or in a mix?

I have been putting in a Westerwold/IRG/Winfred mix for Autumn finishing, but I know there will be better yielding options than the Winfred these days. Do you think the Raphno would replace the Winfred in that mix, without getting swamped by the grasses?

DLF fancy running a trial @Great In Grass , if you can get any seed? A mix of 90% IRG (variety from the Protoplus, whose name escapes me) and 10% Raphno maybe?

grew it pure well what come up was pure hahaha. was a tad. dry. one block I had sprayed off I did not plant got too dry
this years crop just ripped up a rough paddock and tosses it on with bulk spreader. with DAP. in a mad rush before rain so a bit weedy I will try and get a photo for yer
have heard. that the regrowth can be. very good people that direct drill grass in to the stubble in autumn like they would do to rape. etc. found. the raphno choked the grass out

 

[Olivia @ BSPB]

FSS is only for crops taken to harvest I think, as set out on gov.uk. The BSPB aren’t keen on that definition as it implies no royalties are due on home saved seed for cover crops!

here at BSPB we use EU and UK PVR legislation that states that the payment becomes due when the farmer makes use of the seed (sows it). You can check our FAQ's here - http://www.fairplay.org.uk/farm-saved-seed-faqs.html

 

[Sheepfog]

here at BSPB we use EU and UK PVR legislation that states that the payment becomes due when the farmer makes use of the seed (sows it). You can check our FAQ's here - http://www.fairplay.org.uk/farm-saved-seed-faqs.html

If you look at https://www.gov.uk/guidance/farm-saved-seed

It states;

"If you are a grower or farmer, you may use seed that you have saved for your own use to grow and harvest a crop - this is known as Farm Saved Seed (FSS)."

No mention of cover crops or failed crops on that guidance AFAIK.

I'm sure @Clive has a view on this as he uses FSS for crops and cover crops.

 

[neilo]

If you look at https://www.gov.uk/guidance/farm-saved-seed

It states;

"If you are a grower or farmer, you may use seed that you have saved for your own use to grow and harvest a crop - this is known as Farm Saved Seed (FSS)."

No mention of cover crops or failed crops on that guidance AFAIK.

I'm sure @Clive has a view on this as he uses FSS for crops and cover crops.

Shhhh, don’t tell on him....

They’ll be wanting royalties paying on volunteer cereals next.

 

[Sheepfog]

Shhhh, don’t tell on him....

They’ll be wanting royalties paying on volunteer cereals next.

I think they thought they'd try and cash in on the back of the popularity of cover crops! Would probably add 50% to their income!

 

[Clive]

If you look at https://www.gov.uk/guidance/farm-saved-seed

It states;

"If you are a grower or farmer, you may use seed that you have saved for your own use to grow and harvest a crop - this is known as Farm Saved Seed (FSS)."

No mention of cover crops or failed crops on that guidance AFAIK.

I'm sure @Clive has a view on this as he uses FSS for crops and cover crops.

“And harvest” - that’s the important bit, if a crop fails or is not grazed etc there is no harvest

 

[spin cycle]

from another thread i'm thinking of trialing maize....to graze aug/sept....then onto beet oct
thinking closer spaced rows and using a game cover variety....also pondering herbicide

 

[Olivia @ BSPB]

“And harvest” - that’s the important bit, if a crop fails or is not grazed etc there is no harvest

The gov.uk website has been amended by Defra to better reflect EU and UK Plant Variety Rights legislation (EU PVR Article 6 (1) and UK PVR Article 9 (3)).
https://www.fginsight.com/news/cover-crop-farm-saved-seed-not-exempt-from-royalties-78075

 

[neilo]

Thank you for clarifying that Olivia. I'm just off out to find a stone, so that I can wring some blood out of it.

 

[Olivia @ BSPB]

Thank you for clarifying that Olivia. I'm just off out to find a stone, so that I can wring some blood out of it.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news

 

[neilo]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news

Any news on the volunteer cereals?

I normally DD a 1ha block of 'wild bird seed mix' for Glastir, which is going on the same two blocks next year. It drilled a mix of 95% Irina Spring Barley and 5% mustard last year (both purchased seed). Obviously there is a fair bit of grain on the ground were it has shed out, so plenty will grow in the Spring. Am I OK to leave that 'home saved' seed to grow in situ, without paying royalties on it?