St. Albans Diocessan Board of Finance - Selling ag land from under Tenant (fbt)

glasshouse

Member
Location
lothians
I was only half joking with my Jehovahs comment.
No paid clergy, no idolatry, and hard-core Old Testament.
Oh, and a healthy contempt for the fabulously wealthy organised churches, who profess Christian values, whilst fomenting Third world starvation through opposing birth control; and turning a blind eye to nonces.
The church is all a con.
The scottish church sided with the landlords during the scottish clearances, which resulted in the people boycotting it and setting up the free church in 1843.
The church of scotlandî was deserted.
 

Cowcorn

Member
Mixed Farmer
Sometimes I’ve actually welcomed a discussion with Jehovahs witnesses. If I’m not too busy and feeling a bit bored and isolated out here, (I rarely see anybody other than close family) then it’s not the worst way to spend half an hour. Some are even nice lookers in a frumpy kind of way.
I also find the yearly visit from the jehovahs witnesses and offer them a coffee .
Once ive made it clear im not changing brands we get on to chatting about life in general .
One nice lady who hailed from the north of england but who now lives in the local town i still bump into now and again and always enjoy a chat with her .
People are people and we all bump along whatever label we choose .
 
Young man who cleans our windows is one, real nice chap.
I just can't get my head around the blind unquestioning faith, the evolution denial, and the patriarchal society.
Same here. Perhaps it is the career of choice amongst the Witness community. I only know of three window cleaners and all three are Jehovah's Witnesses. In my youth,I used to work in a Midlands cattle market. Almost all the other staff were Witnesses, as the market manager was,and he recruited them. Almost all of them had something amiss about them,when you got to know them. I was never sure if that's what attracted them to the religion or if it was because of it. There was no doubting their commitment to it though, or how much they looked after each other.
 

Hindsight

Member
Location
Lincolnshire
@Hindsight @teslacoils Are you both large(Wool) churches on the Heath or smaller more manageable churches.? And could we put pressure on further up the chain to tell the diocese that the cathedral ordained staff should take service at parish level and help out?
WB

Hi, I live south east of Grantham. The village church is a mish mash of building periods. Not one of the as you say 'wool' churches. I am not a church goer, so not really helpful to the cause. I do though appreciate these majestic buildings have been the result of and witnessed our country and societies history for millenia, and as such are as important as a Holbein or any other museum artefact. But appreciate they are a cost and that cost is borne by folk who choose to worship, and choose to worship in the CofE. As Tesla points out there are cheaper alternative places to worship. A bit like Aldi versus Waitrose. I have said this to our church warden friend. A bit like choosing to live in a Grade 1 listed house - there is a known cost and tacit acceptance of interference when purchasing the property.
 

teslacoils

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
"How do we preserve these old buildungs?"

The answer is to use them. And for the church hierarchy, the answer is to facilitate their use.

Grade 1 or 2 listing for a house, in my opinion, is a kiss of death. Even non listed buildings can be the same. For the last month I've been looking at plans for my lovely old barn, but the reality is it's most viable option is to be taken down; the bricks reclaimed and sold.
 
I was told once that in days long ago when churches didn't have pews but benches round the outside walls, that they had much more of a community use than today. I was also told that the worshippers would stand, except for some of the old folk who would sit on the benches, hence the expression: "and the weak must go to the wall".
 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
Church buildings do undoubtedly have an architectural and historical worth of more than monetary value. The problem is they need megabucks to renovate them to a standard approved by the diocese. None of that is much to do with Christianity. It’s a heritage / historical issue and really should be recognised as such rather than be heaped onto “Christians”. I think in Germany such buildings are recognised as being of worth to the community generally and are funded out of general taxation. That’s right in my view.
 
Church buildings do undoubtedly have an architectural and historical worth of more than monetary value. The problem is they need megabucks to renovate them to a standard approved by the diocese. None of that is much to do with Christianity. It’s a heritage / historical issue and really should be recognised as such rather than be heaped onto “Christians”. I think in Germany such buildings are recognised as being of worth to the community generally and are funded out of general taxation. That’s right in my view.
I think the government missed a trick (or didn't as they were keen on coolbritania) with the millennium, one to build a network of cycle paths, and two, to renovate our churches.
 

teslacoils

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
Church buildings do undoubtedly have an architectural and historical worth of more than monetary value. The problem is they need megabucks to renovate them to a standard approved by the diocese. None of that is much to do with Christianity. It’s a heritage / historical issue and really should be recognised as such rather than be heaped onto “Christians”. I think in Germany such buildings are recognised as being of worth to the community generally and are funded out of general taxation. That’s right in my view.
I think the rebuild value of our church is in excess of £2m. It will never be able to generate in income to maintain itself in any form. Listings are often quite specific parts of a building. Personally I think it should be pulled down; turned into a home; and rented out to provide an income for the parish.
 

Daddy Pig

Member
Location
dorset
Same here. Perhaps it is the career of choice amongst the Witness community. I only know of three window cleaners and all three are Jehovah's Witnesses. In my youth,I used to work in a Midlands cattle market. Almost all the other staff were Witnesses, as the market manager was,and he recruited them. Almost all of them had something amiss about them,when you got to know them. I was never sure if that's what attracted them to the religion or if it was because of it. There was no doubting their commitment to it though, or how much they looked after each other.
unless one of them needed a blood transfusion .
 

Cowcorn

Member
Mixed Farmer
I used to go to church, but i have seen right through it all now , its primarily population control and manipulation.
Put up with a shyte life on earth cos your next life will be better.
Jam tomorrow on steroids
You might consider a deathbed return to the fold ???:):) Either way God wont hold it again you ..... But should you encounter any problems with the paperwork at the pearly gates just ask for Brother Albert who will say " let him in quick there couldnt be any problem , how could there be ??? Isint he one of the farmers ."
 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
I think the rebuild value of our church is in excess of £2m. It will never be able to generate in income to maintain itself in any form. Listings are often quite specific parts of a building. Personally I think it should be pulled down; turned into a home; and rented out to provide an income for the parish.
To a large extent many village churches were an extension of the villages squires ego. Now the squires have gone or aren’t interested or have married a Muslim or run out of cash themselves the upkeep falls on the congregation entirely and as reserves dwindle they just run out of cash. Although most villagers here lived in considerable poverty until the 1940’s the squire would put on a feast or harvest festival every year as a treat for the villagers/congregation. The idea that the congregation itself would fund the upkeep of the church is I think a fairly new one especially in rural areas. Feasts turned into fundraising events where the most needy in the Parish were expected to dig deep to send money to the diocese. I’m not sure some of those attending the “feast” ever thought it was a fundraising event and were still unwittingly living in an earlier era when it would have been laid on for their benefit. Death duties and other punitive taxes, the requisition of country houses by the military killed the squires off hereabouts and so cut off the financial patronage that many rural churches depended upon.
And it will never be the same again. Some villagers who worked on the estates actually saw the church as just another instrument of the squires oppression and certainly when the estates were sold off, attendance, which wasn’t now “ expected” fell off a cliff.
 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
Many rural churches are doomed without State intervention by means of English Heritage or a wealthy local benefactor. New roof etc costs megabucks nowadays and is way beyond the capability of your average fund raising event. Annual fundraising can’t even pay the vicar or insurance and utilities, unfortunately.
 

Daddy Pig

Member
Location
dorset
Many rural churches are doomed without State intervention by means of English Heritage or a wealthy local benefactor. New roof etc costs megabucks nowadays and is way beyond the capability of your average fund raising event. Annual fundraising can’t even pay the vicar or insurance and utilities, unfortunately.
shouldn't the income from the billions of pounds worth of investments and property be going to pay for the upkeep of these buildings+ I cant really see the need for paid clergy and bishops living the life of riley in their luxury palaces nowadays.
 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
shouldn't the income from the billions of pounds worth of investments and property be going to pay for the upkeep of these buildings+ I cant really see the need for paid clergy and bishops living the life of riley in their luxury palaces nowadays.
A very good point indeed. The higher echelons tend to look after themselves. Bishops sit in the House of Lords and I guess ultimately they run the system for their own benefit. I dare say the plebs were always a bit of a nuisance.
British democracy : iron fist in the velvet glove.
 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
I think the present predicament of the C of E has probably blown the cover off what has always been a highly dubious relationship with its flock. I think the C of E could continue to pay its management whether they perform any ministry or not. They have never contributed anything to the maintenance of our church. Any funds we raise go to the diocese to pay the clergy salaries and pensions. Really they still run a kind of feudal system. What is has to do with Christianity escapes me. It’s the descendant of Henry VIII’s thought police, and now largely self serving when you strip away the sentimentality.
 

David.

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
J11 M40
Nothing more than a means of keeping the lid on uppity peasants; if the threat of your family's eviction from the Squire's tied house didn't keep you humble, the next layer of jeopardy was The Church and the threat of eternal damnation in the fires of Hell. If that failed the Government sent you on an extended holiday in Aus, or Tas, without access to the VIP lounge.
 
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HSENI names new farm safety champions

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Written by William Kellett from Agriland

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The Health and Safety Executive for Northern Ireland (HSENI) alongside the Farm Safety Partnership (FSP), has named new farm safety champions and commended the outstanding work on farm safety that has been carried out in the farming community in the last 20 years.

Two of these champions are Malcom Downey, retired principal inspector for the Agri/Food team in HSENI and Harry Sinclair, current chair of the Farm Safety Partnership and former president of the Ulster Farmers’ Union (UFU).

Improving farm safety is the key aim of HSENI’s and the FSP’s work and...
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