St. Albans Diocessan Board of Finance - Selling ag land from under Tenant (fbt)

[Cowcorn]

Nothing more than a means of keeping the lid on uppity peasants; if the threat of your family's eviction from the Squire's tied house didn't keep you humble, the next layer of jeopardy was The Church and the threat of eternal damnation in the fires of Hell. If that failed the Government sent you on an extended holiday in Aus, or Tas, without access to the VIP lounge.

I suppose the reason the CoE is held in contempt is because it was seen as a tool of the establishment by the tenants and peasantry .
The tithes wouldnt have helped generate goodwill either .
Whereas over here Catholic priests were definitely anti establishment and many lost their lives over their activities .
The Famous Father Murphy led the Wexford rebels in 1798 and came close to overthrowing the crown .
Catholics werent allowed have churches until the granting of Catholic emanpacation in the early 1800s and during the Great Famine the evangelical protestant groups who offered soup to those who were willing to convert got few takers .
Those that took the soup were sneered at and called soupers a name that stuck to their descendants even today .
The Church built schools and hospitals and many people owe their affluence to the the top class education the recieved from these schools .
Today despite the horrors of child abuse scandals that have dogged the church and the decline in attendances on Sundays most people still consider themselves members .
A Church must be its members and if it fails to consider its flock then buildings wont be required .

 

[DrWazzock]

I’ve been a bit over critical of the C of E due to beet induced grumpiness. The C of E did it’s best with me for the right reasons and I’m thankful for that. Now seems to have lost its way but the whole spiritual environment is not now an easy place to work in. So many folks are searching for something they’ll never find by opening a wallet. I’m glad I had some sort of religious instruction. I’d be poorer without it. Some might well say it was nonsense but it’s at least a coping mechanism when all else fails and most of the alternatives, like science, booze, sex, drugs psychoanalysis fail very quickly when shown the full force of catastrophic events. Somehow a bit faith and hope endures when all else has fallen over and at least lead to a more relaxed acceptance of earthly problems.

 

[teslacoils]

If you haven't been brought up in some kind of church surrounding, I think just turning up one day would be quite difficult.

It's open churches festival in West Lindsey in the first two weekends of may. Pop in to your local Quaker meeting house and ask one of the classic questions:

So, your like the Amish then?
So, you mean you just sit there?
So, the porridge . ....?
So, you're something to do with chocolate?

 

[David.]

I think it is perfectly possible to live what would be considered Christian existence and never set foot in a church, simply by living by the rule of "Do as you would be done to".

 

[DrWazzock]

I think it is perfectly possible to live what would be considered Christian existence and never set foot in a church, simply by living by the rule of "Do as you would be done to".

Well that is one of only two required commandments set out in the New Testament so yes you are right. There is nothing anywhere in the bible or Christian teachings that says anybody needs to set foot in a church. Pray in secret was the general advice. Don’t make a show of it.

 

[Lazy Sod]

I totally agree and you don't need a fictitious god either. Someone in our village told me that he partook in church activities to be part of the community. I'd rather be a part of the community without all the religious mumbo jumbo. Please direct me to the local atheist church club.

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[David.]

An atheist "church" would probably be as miserable as a vegan convention, or full of wierdos like the American religious fundamentalists.
They do tend to like to keep on about it.
I'll settle for agnostic in the absence of proof either way, and try to do no harm as I go.

 

[DrWazzock]

I totally agree and you don't need a fictitious god either. Someone in our village told me that he partook in church activities to be part of the community. I'd rather be a part of the community without all the religious mumbo jumbo. Please direct me to the local atheist church club.

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I found the church and the pub quite similar really. Community spirit, setting the world fo right, discussing mutual problems etc. Well I did before the pub was taken over by tourist diners and most of us locals either died or moved away or couldn’t go because of wretched self isolating / shielding etc. The pub revolved round alcohol, the church round lifting your mind away from earthly problems so they are quite similar really - a source of relief from strife of one sort or another.

 

[teslacoils]

Well that is one of only two required commandments set out in the New Testament so yes you are right. There is nothing anywhere in the bible or Christian teachings that says anybody needs to set foot in a church. Pray in secret was the general advice. Don’t make a show of it.

“When two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them.”

Matthew 18:20.

It's the basis for Quaker group worship and rejection of an ordained clergy. Modern worship may be any gathered action based on a shared conviction.

 

[Lazy Sod]

An atheist "church" would probably be as miserable as a vegan convention, or full of wierdos like the American religious fundamentalists.
They do tend to like to keep on about it.
I'll settle for agnostic in the absence of proof either way, and try to do no harm as I go.

Well I certainly will not evangelise my lack of belief in a god. I just don't see the need for any religions. All hail the tooth fairy and father christmas.

 

[David.]

It's fine not to believe in a divine being, entity, omnipresent superfairy, or whatever. I don't either.
But to be a convincing atheist you have to be able to successfully argue the negative and provide the evidence; the fact that "The other side" cannot provide the positive hard evidence either doesn't seem to detract from their credibility, because all that is necessary is to invoke "Faith".
And let's not forget, back in the day, detractors from The Establishment line were burned as heretics.

 

[DrWazzock]

Well I certainly evangelise my lack of believe in god. I just don't see the need for any religions.

Even farming is a sort of religion with various branches. DD, plough and combi, shepherds leading life of penance. High priests abound. A lot is done through tradition. We drill in blind faith.
Farming runs through the bible. I can’t remember who it was but it was told that the day after sowing seeds, a farmer went to look to see if anything had come up. We still do that 2000 years later. We go to have a look even though it’s too early for anything to have emerged yet. We go to have a look because it’s a miracle really and still a source of mystery and wonder to see green shoots coming up.

 

[onthehoof]

I’ve recently bought a field from the diocese of Ely on which we had an AHA, had to pay near enough full market value though but I think Covid helped their decision to sell

 

[Lazy Sod]

But to be a convincing atheist you have to be able to successfully argue the negative and provide the evidence; the fact that "The other side" cannot provide the positive hard evidence either doesn't seem to detract from their credibility, because all that is necessary is to invoke "Faith".
And let's not forget, back in the day, detractors from The Establishment line were burned as heretics.

I can't be bothered with all that, as my username bears out. I've been a total realist since I was a small child, so religeon makes no sense to me at all. Perhaps athiest is the wrong term for me, non believer perhaps.