Start Dates

[Neddy flanders]

Sorry stupid question time.
If I start a SFI agreement in say May or October, which crop would be expected to be insecticide free or DD etc etc
assuming its the next one, not the one thats in the ground?

 

[yellow belly]

the next one planted

 

[Hindsight]

Sorry stupid question time.
If I start a SFI agreement in say May or October, which crop would be expected to be insecticide free or DD etc etc
assuming its the next one, not the one thats in the ground?

Its not per crop but for the year commencing at the start date irrespective of cropping year.

 

[Hindsight]

the next one planted

I beg to disagree for clarification its for the 12 months. The crop is on no consequenc. I have field whic grow three crops of Lettuce in a summer and the wheat.

 

[yellow belly]

I beg to disagree for clarification its for the 12 months. The crop is on no consequenc. I have field whic grow three crops of Lettuce in a summer and the wheat.

If you plant lettice then sfi is insignificant to the viability of the crop
although you may net the crop for inscecticide control as they do with some veg crops

 

[Hindsight]

If you plant lettice then sfi is insignificant to the viability of the crop
although you may net the crop for inscecticide control as they do with some veg crops

That wasn't the point of clarification I was making. The issue of the OP there seems some confusion among farmers the no insecticide applies on a per crop basis. This misunderstanding need to be corrected. The fact lettuce as in my example is irrelevant. Could as easily been combinable crops which you grow.

 

[yellow belly]

That wasn't the point of clarification I was making. The issue of the OP there seems some confusion among farmers the no insecticide applies on a per crop basis. This misunderstanding need to be corrected. The fact lettuce as in my example is irrelevant. Could as easily been combinable crops which you grow.

One rule I would use is if I am not sure of the rule then do not do the action

 

[B'o'B]

I beg to disagree for clarification its for the 12 months. The crop is on no consequenc. I have field whic grow three crops of Lettuce in a summer and the wheat.

I beg to disagree with you on this @Hindsight

The rules only require it to be done on one “cash crop” per 12 months.

Although the lettuce crops described in your post might well not count due to the following… so you would likely need to do the action on the wheat crop

 

[Hindsight]

I beg to disagree with you on this @Hindsight

The rules only require it to be done on one “cash crop” per 12 months.

Although the lettuce crops described in your post might well not count due to the following… so you would likely need to do the action on the wheat crop

Thats a different prescription to the one i just checked, i will keep quiet. Make up your own rules as you go along, cheers.

 

[B'o'B]

Thats a different prescription to the one i just checked, i will keep quiet. Make up your own rules as you go along, cheers.

Those bits posted in my post above are the new SFI 24 prescription.
I just went back to check the SFI23 rules and under that prescription I do agree with your interpretation!
What a state of affairs! It seems DEFRA are the ones making up rules as they go along!

 

[Vader]

Those bits posted in my post above are the new SFI 24 prescription.
I just went back to check the SFI23 rules and under that prescription I do agree with your interpretation!
What a state of affairs! It seems DEFRA are the ones making up rules as they go along!

Be great fun if you a couple sfi starting under different rules...

 

[Aspiring Peasants]

Be great fun if you a couple sfi starting under different rules...

Make sure you have a hard copy of the rules for whatever bit you’ve done for the version that applies. Any inspections are going to be complicated now and the online handbook may disappear or be altered

 

[B'o'B]

Make sure you have a hard copy of the rules for whatever bit you’ve done for the version that applies. Any inspections are going to be complicated now and the online handbook may disappear or be altered

On inspection it should help that the SFI24 options have a different code to the equivalent SFI23.
In a SFI23 agreement you would sign up for IPM4, but on a SFI24 agreement you would sign up to CIPM4 for the no insecticide option, which should help clarify things on an inspection.
But for people managing multiple schemes it is becoming a nightmare. I should have double checked both schemes before contradicting @Hindsight last night.

 

[Hindsight]

On inspection it should help that the SFI24 options have a different code to the equivalent SFI23.
In a SFI23 agreement you would sign up for IPM4, but on a SFI24 agreement you would sign up to CIPM4 for the no insecticide option, which should help clarify things on an inspection.
But for people managing multiple schemes it is becoming a nightmare. I should have double checked both schemes before contradicting @Hindsight last night.

Hi, and I too should have checked both schemes before wading in to correct Yellowbelly. And you were correct to pull me up, as in my posts I should have referenced the SFI2024 but to be honest I have not even looked at the prescriptions and assumed it would be the same. I now appreciate lobbying has got IPM4 changed to be more farmer friendly but possibly delivers less of the original intentions.

But this does highlight another problem now is that with two sets of rules for IPM4 farmers (and possibly advisers) are going to get into a muddle and possibly conflate the two. This was the kind of thing that under EU funded Stewardship schemes RPA Inspectorate seemed to love to pick up on - the minutiae of detail that meant a farmer had got something wrong - and would then be open to fines and recovery of payments, with uplift overriders. We wait to see how RPA Inspectorate police the ELMS/SFI given the variance in prescriptions between Scheme Versions.

As an adviser I can see already meetings where the flow of a meeting will be interrupted by the continual caveat 'which Scheme version are you in'. This is not new of course, same happened with ELS as it evolved and the handbooks changed colour accordingly, though changed same colour subtly (Blue as I recall), rather than having different colours for the different versions, I assume as Defra staff had for corporate marketing chosen Blue and didn't want to detract from their marketing colour.

 

[B'o'B]

Hi, and I too should have checked both schemes before wading in to correct Yellowbelly. And you were correct to pull me up, as in my posts I should have referenced the SFI2024 but to be honest I have not even looked at the prescriptions and assumed it would be the same. I now appreciate lobbying has got IPM4 changed to be more farmer friendly but possibly delivers less of the original intentions.

But this does highlight another problem now is that with two sets of rules for IPM4 farmers (and possibly advisers) are going to get into a muddle and possibly conflate the two. This was the kind of thing that under EU funded Stewardship schemes RPA Inspectorate seemed to love to pick up on - the minutiae of detail that meant a farmer had got something wrong - and would then be open to fines and recovery of payments, with uplift overriders. We wait to see how RPA Inspectorate police the ELMS/SFI given the variance in prescriptions between Scheme Versions.

As an adviser I can see already meetings where the flow of a meeting will be interrupted by the continual caveat 'which Scheme version are you in'. This is not new of course, same happened with ELS as it evolved and the handbooks changed colour accordingly, though changed same colour subtly (Blue as I recall), rather than having different colours for the different versions, I assume as Defra staff had for corporate marketing chosen Blue and didn't want to detract from their marketing colour.

I am signed up to IPM4 under the SFI23 rules, so I have clearly already forgotten what I’ve actually signed up to!

 

[yellow belly]

If you search othe defra site ipm4 ad cipm4 are different
when the Rpa check inspect ect they will refer to the code you signed up to

this Was also the case with different year starts for mid tier stewardship
just save the rules in a directory on your computer I have mid tier 2022 also previous mid tier 2018 and now sfi 2023
also contract farms on other start dates

 

[Grass And Grain]

Pleased to see SFI is nice and simple to understand

 

[yellow belly]

Pleased to see SFI is nice and simple to understand

Just like farming !!!