Starting a beef enterprise?

The cow part is believable, if those wee cows are fleshed they'll go into £700 ok, I do share your suspicion on the progeny, although we had a few of them years ago, put them to a big rough Simmental bull and their calves were freakishly big and shapely, when finished one wouldn't fit up the crush he was so wide. 850kg is a big beast at 14mth though.

I could never understand farmers attitudes towards presenting their financial details to papers. All it takes is Mr Tesco to read a few articles and think "Mmm, these farmers are getting rich because of me! Maybe I shouldn't pay so much!"

It's not as bad as those idiot dairy farmers who supply their accounts direct to the supermarkets as part of their contract to get paid break even milk price! What other business does this? If I went into Tesco to buy a pint of milk for lets say 55p and then said at checkout that your costs have gone down 2p since my last purchase so i am only paying 53p and walked out I would be arrested! Ridiculous.
 

Samcowman

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Cornwall
Some of those figure seem a bit optimistic...

£700 for a barren blue grey cow. They aren't very big, so must be killing out well.

£1700 for finished cattle at 14-15 months. That must mean a live weight of around 850Kg at 14 months. Is that achievable?
That's a growth rate of nearly 2kg a day from birth, he must have been a freak. When quoting in these articles would it not be better to put the average?
 

Ali

Member
Location
Aberdeenshire
But surely suckers are a long term game and not a quick buck. Should they also not be matched to your facilities and locally available materials, ie straw, feeds etc.

We run highlander because we don't have sheds and are in an area that has a fair amount of snow fall. Toss up could have been galloways or maybe luing.
They live out all year, they are does spring and autumn and in the last year the only get visit was for scanning and look testing.
Now I know I will not make anything until year three when calves reach weight and start going through the system.
But each year there after your cycling and selling cattle on a premium scheme.
Now I don't make headline prices, but I make good prices and I don't have sheds/electricity/straw etc to pay.
Are they profitable. For me right this second no, cos we are building numbers,mill they be, yes. Will they give me a salary. On my current holding no. Will they wash their face on the current holding and pay for everything with something left over. Yes.
Do we get hand outs. No.
So can you run them profitably yes, you just need to know what things cost and use your assets accordingly
 

Thick Farmer

Member
Location
West Wales
But surely suckers are a long term game and not a quick buck. Should they also not be matched to your facilities and locally available materials, ie straw, feeds etc.

We run highlander because we don't have sheds and are in an area that has a fair amount of snow fall. Toss up could have been galloways or maybe luing.
They live out all year, they are does spring and autumn and in the last year the only get visit was for scanning and look testing.
Now I know I will not make anything until year three when calves reach weight and start going through the system.
But each year there after your cycling and selling cattle on a premium scheme.
Now I don't make headline prices, but I make good prices and I don't have sheds/electricity/straw etc to pay.
Are they profitable. For me right this second no, cos we are building numbers,mill they be, yes. Will they give me a salary. On my current holding no. Will they wash their face on the current holding and pay for everything with something left over. Yes.
Do we get hand outs. No.
So can you run them profitably yes, you just need to know what things cost and use your assets accordingly

I'm not disagreeing that they can be profitable in some shape or form, but as I've said before, it is possible to buy decent weaned calves for less than the cost of keeping a suckler cow for a year.

The other advantage of this is that you can run more cattle, as you won't have a load of sucklers taking up valuable grazing land.
 

Poorbuthappy

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Devon
Some of those figure seem a bit optimistic...

£700 for a barren blue grey cow. They aren't very big, so must be killing out well.

£1700 for finished cattle at 14-15 months. That must mean a live weight of around 850Kg at 14 months. Is that achievable?

My best bull this year made £1600 at a week short of 13 months, he was 675kgs lw. I don't know what bulls the farmer is using, but I don't doubt its achievable.
But note he's not taking them to finish, but a regular buyer - who is obviuously aware of what the cattle are capable of, so is prepared to pay to make sure he gets them.
 

Poorbuthappy

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Devon
I'm not disagreeing that they can be profitable in some shape or form, but as I've said before, it is possible to buy decent weaned calves for less than the cost of keeping a suckler cow for a year.

The other advantage of this is that you can run more cattle, as you won't have a load of sucklers taking up valuable grazing land.

I can run more cows because my bulls are gone before they see a second summer - so enabling me to produce more calves.
 

Thick Farmer

Member
Location
West Wales
My best bull this year made £1600 at a week short of 13 months, he was 675kgs lw. I don't know what bulls the farmer is using, but I don't doubt its achievable.
But note he's not taking them to finish, but a regular buyer - who is obviuously aware of what the cattle are capable of, so is prepared to pay to make sure he gets them.

It says in the article that he sells them at £630 a head, so the regular buyer is making a killing!
 

Poorbuthappy

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Devon
I could never understand farmers attitudes towards presenting their financial details to papers. All it takes is Mr Tesco to read a few articles and think "Mmm, these farmers are getting rich because of me! Maybe I shouldn't pay so much!"

It's not as bad as those idiot dairy farmers who supply their accounts direct to the supermarkets as part of their contract to get paid break even milk price! What other business does this? If I went into Tesco to buy a pint of milk for lets say 55p and then said at checkout that your costs have gone down 2p since my last purchase so i am only paying 53p and walked out I would be arrested! Ridiculous.

Whilst I wouldn't be jumping to put my figures in the press, is it any different in you telling the world on here that you can produce milk cheaper than these guys who are protesting.
 
Whilst I wouldn't be jumping to put my figures in the press, is it any different in you telling the world on here that you can produce milk cheaper than these guys who are protesting.

You are right there! Sometimes you can forget that it is not just us on here!

I wasn't necessarily saying I am producing anything cheaper, more just saying that the high input guys really struggle at times of high concentrate costs without high milk prices. They are more exposed to factors beyond their control.
 

Thick Farmer

Member
Location
West Wales
I can run more cows because my bulls are gone before they see a second summer - so enabling me to produce more calves.

Surely you could buy bulls and have them gone in the same timescale, but if you didn't have a load of cows cluttering up the place you could carry more bulls.

Also, you would only need to buy the ones you liked the look of. I always get one or two calves that are a bit crap compared to the rest!
 

Thick Farmer

Member
Location
West Wales
1378586480543.jpg


An example of one of the odd calves we get. Look how long his tongue is!
 

Poorbuthappy

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Devon
Surely you could buy bulls and have them gone in the same timescale, but if you didn't have a load of cows cluttering up the place you could carry more bulls.

Also, you would only need to buy the ones you liked the look of. I always get one or two calves that are a bit crap compared to the rest!

But I think the reason people like having their own cows (other than those who use them to make the most of rough grazing) is precisely because you know what you're getting. You build up a genetic base of something that performs to suit your system and your farm.
You never do know quite what you're getting when you buy in. You can buy what turns out to be duds or ones that get sick, even when buying nicew looking cattle.
Without meaning to be cocky, I'd have to pay more than £650 to get bull calves to match what mine are like at weaning.
 

Poorbuthappy

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Devon
It says in the article that he sells them at £630 a head, so the regular buyer is making a killing!

That's an average of bulls and heifers, and at only 6 months old, so I guess the finisher is going to have to feed more than I do, but he is still doing all right out of the job obviously!
 

Thick Farmer

Member
Location
West Wales
That's an average of bulls and heifers, and at only 6 months old, so I guess the finisher is going to have to feed more than I do, but he is still doing all right out of the job obviously!

The suckler guy keeps a cow for a year and receives £630 a head for his trouble.

The finisher buys at £630, keeps it for 8 months and receives £1700 for his efforts. I doubt he would have to spend more than £350 to finish them, so he's making a larger profit per head in a shorter time scale.
 

Poorbuthappy

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Devon
The suckler guy keeps a cow for a year and receives £630 a head for his trouble.

The finisher buys at £630, keeps it for 8 months and receives £1700 for his efforts. I doubt he would have to spend more than £350 to finish them, so he's making a larger profit per head in a shorter time scale.

Now you know that's not accurate. It was stated the finisher made UP TO £1700 of the bulls. What's his average of bulls and heifers going to be? £1400?

Can you take an animal from 6 months to finished for £350 without using the WalterP method of accounting?
 

Thick Farmer

Member
Location
West Wales
Now you know that's not accurate. It was stated the finisher made UP TO £1700 of the bulls. What's his average of bulls and heifers going to be? £1400?

Can you take an animal from 6 months to finished for £350 without using the WalterP method of accounting?

The suckler guys net margin per cow was £193.50 according to the table in the article, so even using your assumed figure of £1400 average for his sales, and feed costs of £2 per head per day from 6 to 14 months (£480), that's a total spend of £1110.

Margin for finisher is £290 a head av.
 

Poorbuthappy

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Devon
The suckler guys net margin per cow was £193.50 according to the table in the article, so even using your assumed figure of £1400 average for his sales, and feed costs of £2 per head per day from 6 to 14 months (£480), that's a total spend of £1110.

Margin for finisher is £290 a head av.

You're using the WalterP method of accounting. You've told us we've got to include all our costs as suckler producers but you've only included feed for the finisher. What about bedding, and fixed costs etc
 

multi power

Member
Location
pembrokeshire
The suckler guys net margin per cow was £193.50 according to the table in the article, so even using your assumed figure of £1400 average for his sales, and feed costs of £2 per head per day from 6 to 14 months (£480), that's a total spend of £1110.

Margin for finisher is £290 a head av.

how much skill is there in finishing cattle? im thinking the skill is the day you buy them, im more than catable of rearing calves very well n stores no doubt but i have no idea whatsoever how to get an animial heavy enough to be worth £1400
 
The suckler guys net margin per cow was £193.50 according to the table in the article, so even using your assumed figure of £1400 average for his sales, and feed costs of £2 per head per day from 6 to 14 months (£480), that's a total spend of £1110.

Margin for finisher is £290 a head av.
I'm doubtful that the Progeny of those little cows will be averaging £1400 at such a young age. As I said before, we had a few BGs, bull calves were impressive but the heifers were slow to do anything, you could have a long wait around for them to turn into much money.

I bet there's not much between the rearer and finishers margins.

Remember the finisher is buying a we hairy outdoor calf at 6 months old whipped off it's mum, he'll not sell them all!!!

Finishing cattle isn't all honey, and that's why I stopped it to put on more cows and don't regret in for a minute.
 

Thick Farmer

Member
Location
West Wales
You're using the WalterP method of accounting. You've told us we've got to include all our costs as suckler producers but you've only included feed for the finisher. What about bedding, and fixed costs etc

Hadn't thought of bedding as ours are on slats. I would say around 25p per head per day on fixed costs, labour etc depending on numbers, so another £60 a head overall to keep them.

Margin is now £230 av.
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 80 42.1%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 67 35.3%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 30 15.8%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 7 3.7%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

  • 1,294
  • 1
As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
Top