Starting a farm from nothing... I mean nothing

joe soapy

Member
Location
devon
Also try to contact RABI, they are probably the best connected along with the NFU.
Paul Burrows is the boss at RABI, just mention you was pointed his way by a scruffy farmer from Tavi, i am sure he will give you a hearing.
The Farming age profile is getting older, often desperate for help but with few connections. Indigenous food production is not in a long term sustainable position at this point in time in terms of manpower.
Give it a go, dont let the Jeremiahs drain your ambition and energy.
 
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New Puritan

Member
Location
East Sussex
I started from scratch. About 2 years ago, and from what I can gather, within about a mile of @Greenbeast - so this end of Sussex must have something going for it.

I'm a tenant on just under 50 acres. Like @sheep&cows&stuff I rely on having another job to provide the funds for investment. I was lucky (?) in that I was introduced to a friend of a friend who is/was a farmer who wanted to retire, and was looking for a tenant for his land. It came with all manner of strings attached which made it undesirable to anyone but an idiot (i.e. me), but nevertheless I enjoy it, mostly.

Like others have suggested, you would need to start small and find a niche market to get into. Having young urban types involved would be part of that niche, if you market it well.
 
So I'm based in London and I do have some hands-on experience but (long story short) I'm running a project to try and get urban younger people without any experience more interested in farming... A lot of working farms are understandably reluctant to give experience to and host complete novices so I'm just trying to see what it might take to start something small? Would I need to hire a farm manager, whats the bare minimum to make it (somewhat) economically viable etc.

Good for you. I would focus on finding working farms that can offer help, you really want it to be close to london though?

I would email James Dyson - he may gladly fund some sort of set up you are after. He may not have been Farming long but he has the cash and aptitude to try and help folk like you trying to make a difference.

I would steer clear of trying to do it yourself, it's fraught with tricky stuff, let others do it and try and piggy back them

Best of luck
 

Al R

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
West Wales
I would have said someone like fenpack, elvedon or someone else doing a large amount of veg/processing which requires a mass amount of labour! There’s plenty of people from all nationalities on sprayers/tractors etc with huge responsibilities that all went to these sort of places, started near the bottom and worked to near the top from showing huge initiative, hard graft and dedication they went from being “seasonal” to full time and being trusted with millions of pounds worth of produce/equipment in a short space of time.

The poultry/pig business are also big employers from jobs such as pressure washing/disinfecting to the more daily tasks.
 

pipkins

Member
Has anyone mentioned The Black Farmer? (He'll come up on a search engine.)
There's a chap who might have some pointers for you in relation to bringing BAME (if that's the right term, apols if not) youngsters into rural occupations.

Or Michael Morpurgo? His Farm holidays for City Kids Charity is well established..

One thing to set up from scratch for yourself, quite another to set up in such a way that you can give others a meaningful starting point into the industry.

Farms for City Children, Jamie's Farm (not THAT Jamie, luckily), lots of the City Farms, the School Farms Network, a huge amount more are already doing similar to what you are suggesting. Lots of market research and gaining some experience in an organisation like that (the city farms especially are under-funded and welcome volunteers) would help to clarify your plans but I am not convinced that being one page ahead of your customers is going to set them up well- however a linking/coordinating role into existing businesses and provisions might be a good way forward.

Both The Black Farmer and JB Gill are lovely helpful guys from ethnicities under-represented in farming. I am heavily involved in various aspects of working with young people without a background in farming so I recommend some time looking at what's already out there, identifying gaps (there are at least one or two) and seeing how your skills address those would be better than getting into a small farm and learning as you go while trying to compete with these established and well-connected provisions.

I did that, I must admit, but on a very small scale and extremely slowly and was several books ahead of my young people before we did anything, as a result!
 

Will Wilson

Member
Location
Essex
I agree with Willie and Highland I am afraid - Its very frustrating when people assume you can just 'start farming' without experience or education first - and if you have good luck to you but I would argue you'd be doing better now if you had either of the above.
 

Still Farming

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
South Wales UK
Personal circumstances ,family ,money ,partners etc. Etc .
All graft in the end.
Money and good luck are needed.
Good and Bad prevail.
Working or involved in Agriculture first it a start !
 

Sandpit Farm

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Derbyshire
I would agree that starting something yourself is a non-starter. It will be baler-twine farming at best and is not a true insight into the industry. I don't think your questions are patronising... they are just questions that have a fairly simple answer. BREXIT means an uneasy few (20+) years where we will not be able to rely on subsidy... only the top 9% of suckler beef farmers make a profit without subsidy and I believe this is only a slightly better picture for sheep. Many farmers spend 90+ hrs a week to farm (and brag about it) but don't include labour in their cost of production... so let's be honest - it is not a lucrative industry. You cannot buy 10 acres of land and make the payments on it by farming it (with the exception perhaps of pigs/poultry which would require massive investment). So you have got to work with existing farms.

UK farming is very 'white' and perhaps does not reflect the true population as more ethnic minorities tend to be in towns and cities. I think your idea sounds fascinating and I have often wondered how our industry could become more multicultural. The dairy industry is facing a labour crisis and something like this could be interesting. I am meeting more and more dairy farmers now who are finding staff without farming backgrounds and they are training them and retaining them.
 
Also try to contact RABI, they are probably the best connected along with the NFU.
Paul Burrows is the boss at RABI, just mention you was pointed his way by a scruffy farmer from Tavi, i am sure he will give you a hearing.
The Farming age profile is getting older, often desperate for help but with few connections. Indigenous food production is not in a long term sustainable position at this point in time in terms of manpower.
Give it a go, dont let the Jeremiahs drain your ambition and energy.
Good advice thank you - wasn't aware of RABI but will get them a shout!
 
I would agree that starting something yourself is a non-starter. It will be baler-twine farming at best and is not a true insight into the industry. I don't think your questions are patronising... they are just questions that have a fairly simple answer. BREXIT means an uneasy few (20+) years where we will not be able to rely on subsidy... only the top 9% of suckler beef farmers make a profit without subsidy and I believe this is only a slightly better picture for sheep. Many farmers spend 90+ hrs a week to farm (and brag about it) but don't include labour in their cost of production... so let's be honest - it is not a lucrative industry. You cannot buy 10 acres of land and make the payments on it by farming it (with the exception perhaps of pigs/poultry which would require massive investment). So you have got to work with existing farms.

UK farming is very 'white' and perhaps does not reflect the true population as more ethnic minorities tend to be in towns and cities. I think your idea sounds fascinating and I have often wondered how our industry could become more multicultural. The dairy industry is facing a labour crisis and something like this could be interesting. I am meeting more and more dairy farmers now who are finding staff without farming backgrounds and they are training them and retaining them.
Hey - thank you so much for your reply... it seems like I am onto something with this but I'm not entirely sure how to proceed if farmers are reluctant to get inner-city types working on farms. Do you have any suggestions for ways I could go about it? - I'm interested in what you're saying about pig farming... what kind of investment does that involved and why would it make money?
 

Greenbeast

Member
Location
East Sussex
- I'm interested in what you're saying about pig farming... what kind of investment does that involved and why would it make money?

Well this is us, 15ac (although currently only 2 or 3 given over to pigs), cost us 8k/ac to buy.
Countless dozens of thousands on equipment and tons of pig food a year...
It only makes money compared to other farming enterprises (at the scale you're taking about) because it can be done on small acreages compared to sheep /beef /arable. But you have to market the meat yourself, you'll never produce enough, cheap enough to supply live or carcasses to butchers
 

Sandpit Farm

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Derbyshire
Hey - thank you so much for your reply... it seems like I am onto something with this but I'm not entirely sure how to proceed if farmers are reluctant to get inner-city types working on farms. Do you have any suggestions for ways I could go about it? - I'm interested in what you're saying about pig farming... what kind of investment does that involved and why would it make money?

Assuming you can find a home for all of the litter and slurry, you can fit a 1000-sow+ indoor unit on 10 acres. The land would need to be licensed... this means you'd really need to buy a going concern. You'd be talking several £million. The farm would need to be mortgaged and therefore written off over 25-40 years.

It is a little different to what @Greenbeast is talking about. They are adding value and producing for a niche market. They can only exist by adding this value and ... of course... not everybody can do it otherwise there is no point of differentiation. It puts a lot of pressure on marketing and staying relevant. That is the only way you can exist on a small acreage and I think it would be unfair to draw a comparison between this system and a more mainstream system. It is certainly farming but only reflective of a small percentage of the industry. (@Greenbeast ... absolutely not taking anything away from what you are doing).
 

Greenbeast

Member
Location
East Sussex
Assuming you can find a home for all of the litter and slurry, you can fit a 1000-sow+ indoor unit on 10 acres. The land would need to be licensed... this means you'd really need to buy a going concern. You'd be talking several £million. The farm would need to be mortgaged and therefore written off over 25-40 years.

It is a little different to what @Greenbeast is talking about. They are adding value and producing for a niche market. They can only exist by adding this value and ... of course... not everybody can do it otherwise there is no point of differentiation. It puts a lot of pressure on marketing and staying relevant. That is the only way you can exist on a small acreage and I think it would be unfair to draw a comparison between this system and a more mainstream system. It is certainly farming but only reflective of a small percentage of the industry. (@Greenbeast ... absolutely not taking anything away from what you are doing).


Quite, the relevance of what we do to the OP is that we were relatively uninitiated when we started (my OH is a mixed practice vet and my parents did have a semi-intensive pig unit on 13ac). It's certainly more accessible to 'newbies' than the sow unit you detail, if not akin to the majority of agriculture in this country. :)(y)
 

som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
Hey - thank you so much for your reply... it seems like I am onto something with this but I'm not entirely sure how to proceed if farmers are reluctant to get inner-city types working on farms. Do you have any suggestions for ways I could go about it? - I'm interested in what you're saying about pig farming... what kind of investment does that involved and why would it make money?

learn to milk cows,a couple of solid graft will see if you have 'touch',
also, if going rates for cowpeople are what I have been quoted, you will get a salary anywhere between £20k and £50k with accomadation included.
perhaps we should be promoting how ag wages are now much higher than many other (normal) careers. like most other replies, it is a hard,uncompromising career, to start up you just have to get into the industry,do a really good job, ( herdsperson ) and hope you have a massive piece of luck. But hats of to you for trying to get into farming
 
I honestly never expected so many great responses to this thread - it's all very helpful. New question...

How would you get young people from cities (with NO experience) into farming? Not petting zoos where children take photos of buttercups and bottle feed lambs but proper, profitable, meaningful, productive farming?

Of course they could go to get an agricultural qualification but then the question is how do you get them interested?
 

Still Farming

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
South Wales UK
I honestly never expected so many great responses to this thread - it's all very helpful. New question...

How would you get young people from cities (with NO experience) into farming? Not petting zoos where children take photos of buttercups and bottle feed lambs but proper, profitable, meaningful, productive farming?

Of course they could go to get an agricultural qualification but then the question is how do you get them interested?
Thought you were working as this now ?
 

Sandpit Farm

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Derbyshire
I honestly never expected so many great responses to this thread - it's all very helpful. New question...

How would you get young people from cities (with NO experience) into farming? Not petting zoos where children take photos of buttercups and bottle feed lambs but proper, profitable, meaningful, productive farming?

Of course they could go to get an agricultural qualification but then the question is how do you get them interested?

Honestly, in dairy, it is as simple as working at McDonalds... or at least it should be. Farms 'should' (but most don't) have standard operating procedures (SOPs) for everything from scraping and sweeping the yard or injecting a cow to an entire milking regime. Dairy farming can be very systematic and logical. It ought to be fairly easy to bring somebody in who knows nothing and start them at very simple tasks like washing things out, scraping up etc and steadily build their knowledge and experience. It just takes an open-minded farmer with some patience and a youth who is willing to graft and start at a low wage.
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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