Starting Pedigree Sheep

[neilo]

Texel or Charollais but most likely the Charollais

of those two, Charollais have largely managed to avoid the businessman’s hobby inputs, so prices are generally a bit more sensible, but high enough to make it worthwhile.

If your aim is to have a bit of fun in the showring, then I would suggest you will be looking at a very different animal to that which makes a good crossing ram for fat lamb production (ridiculously). Above anything else, you will need style, scale and the genetics to thrive on high concentrate rations. Shearling rams hitting 200 kg inJuly/August are not going to produce a finished lamb off grass at 40-45kg.

 

[dogandstick]

Whatever you choose, you will need to like the look of it. Might be worth a visit to a variety of breeders before deciding. Better to see the sheep in working clothes than trimmed out to perfection.

 

[andybk]

Whatever you choose, you will need to like the look of it. Might be worth a visit to a variety of breeders before deciding. Better to see the sheep in working clothes than trimmed out to perfection.

Personally would buy a group of average young ewes from one trusted breeder , and 3 or 4 ram lambs maybe more , from different sources , just to get some consistency across the flock , to see what the rams are doing (the lambs will be all different sorts first year but will tell you which to use and which to move on next year) . also maybe one or two special ewes to see a comparison .
Roland Harris an original char breeder , always said he bought high priced and cheap rams , often the cheaper ones (usually smaller from good flocks )were a better buy long term , but you needed to buy 6 to get a good one for the pedigree world , till you can breed your own .

 

[Sandpit Farm]

I’d suggest that you just buy something that looks nice and enjoy breeding them and looking at them over the fence. Maybe something rare breed. You needn’t get into the high price merry go round and the constant pull in different directions from show people and commercial people. Also prices are low but the meat is still excellent.

Something like Kerry Hills? Or if you have the climate and suitable land, Wendsleydales?

 

[Longlowdog]

You can make a mark with sheep bought outside of the breed's primary sales. I've bought ewes in lamb from our Thainstone Christmas Classic and had great results. Primarily because there are always one or two folk determined to win the rosette for publicity purposes and they don't mind the lower prices.

 

[JP1]

I’d suggest that you just buy something that looks nice and enjoy breeding them and looking at them over the fence. Maybe something rare breed. You needn’t get into the high price merry go round and the constant pull in different directions from show people and commercial people. Also prices are low but the meat is still excellent.

Something like Kerry Hills? Or if you have the climate and suitable land, Wendsleydales?

Or Roussins

 

[Forest&Farm]

Badger face - great mums, good feet, milky, good % of twin and trips, hardy and fatten on anything, bit more interesting too

 

[liammogs]

Smart ewes with great pedigrees are no guarantee. The ewe in my avatar was 3,500gns bred an average tup lamb by a great sire then died before she'd had her coat off twice. Some of the 300gns ewes I bought at the same sale have paid for themselves 6 times over in tup sales and left ewes in my flock. What I look out for now are folk that did the same as me. Bought in to the breed with high hopes, bought great stock from renowned breeders and get bugger all for great stock because they don't have 'The Name' when they come to sell.
Showing is a different ball park. You might get a rosette from an honest judge, and there are a few about in the local circuit but you will have a bunch to learn about trimming breeds that are shown untrimmed and nearly as much to learn about sheep shown trimmed. Then feeding is an art form in itself.
However after you get to the stage of your own ewes with 5 generation home bred pedigrees you will have immense pleasure viewing what you have developed over the gate on a nice evening and by then you'll have sorted out your own buyers as well.

Can't agree with this enough! Look for people that are willing to buy into a breed but haven't got a name, there stock some times is better than the 'big names' just they haven't the right prefix.....what I cal l the dimonds in the rough, it's how I started with the pedigrees

 

[MRT]

If you want to go pedigree but don't want to sell rams to farmers or breeders, but want to show and enjoy, but do want to break even I would have thought a lot of the high input/spending advice would leave you in a ££££s hole? I'd look for breeders that show with reasonable results and buy a few solid ewes and a ram lamb without costing a fortune - or am I missing something?

 

[JP1]

Can't agree with this enough! Look for people that are willing to buy into a breed but haven't got a name, there stock some times is better than the 'big names' just they haven't the right prefix.....what I cal l the dimonds in the rough, it's how I started with the pedigrees

Sell?

 

[liammogs]

Sell?

No the young guns that think that buying into the big name flocks and thing there going to have the golden eggs......there stock is of good quality but you can usually buy them at a lot cheaper than the 'big names'

 

[JP1]

No the young guns that think that buying into the big name flocks and thing there going to have the golden eggs......there stock is of good quality but you can usually buy them at a lot cheaper than the 'big names'

OIC - sorry

 

[Longlowdog]

When I aspired to show and thought I'd be the next rising star I was 'that guy', spent a small fortune, bought recip's carrying embryos, spent big time at the premier sale, had some really bonny lambs with pedigrees up the wazoo. Sold the first lot of shearlings at Carlisle for minimum upset. The big name I bought my embryos from sold the exact same way bred tups for thousands. That's what taught me to look for 'me' at the subsequent sales. Name is more important than almost anything if you want to sell while an honest judge will give you a rosette at a show if you deserve one, it just won't be red.

 

[Lazy Bones]

If you want to go pedigree but don't want to sell rams to farmers or breeders, but want to show and enjoy, but do want to break even I would have thought a lot of the high input/spending advice would leave you in a ££££s hole? I'd look for breeders that show with reasonable results and buy a few solid ewes and a ram lamb without costing a fortune - or am I missing something?

You can make a mark with sheep bought outside of the breed's primary sales. I've bought ewes in lamb from our Thainstone Christmas Classic and had great results. Primarily because there are always one or two folk determined to win the rosette for publicity purposes and they don't mind the lower prices.

On

If you want to go pedigree but don't want to sell rams to farmers or breeders, but want to show and enjoy, but do want to break even I would have thought a lot of the high input/spending advice would leave you in a ££££s hole? I'd look for breeders that show with reasonable results and buy a few solid ewes and a ram lamb without costing a fortune - or am I missing something?

I see your point, there would be a big £££ hole, it's not that I don't want to sell to farmers or breeders but it wasn't my main objective to do it as an enterprise , I was hoping to get a bit of value from the showing and the breeding and build up a small flock that would cover the entry cost at exit. Reading your post and all the others has given me a better insight, I definitely can't afford to go out and blow a lot of money

 

[glensman]

One thing I'd say is whatever breed you go for give a lot of thought to type. Settle upon an overall type you want to breed and only buy this model of female and rams that match, this should save many years going round in circles.

 

[Agrivator]

A major benefit of commercial sheep is that it isn't such a disappointment when one dies. And if you use a duff tup that leaves poor lambs, it can be put right without any long-term consequences.

 

[MDL POWERUP]

One thing I'd say is whatever breed you go for give a lot of thought to type. Settle upon an overall type you want to breed and only buy this model of female and rams that match, this should save many years going round in circles.

Sometimes I think you need a few variations whne you start out to see what type you like, see how they breed etc

 

[neilo]

Sometimes I think you need a few variations whne you start out to see what type you like, see how they breed etc

Personally I don’t really get this breeding one type thing in terminal sire breeds, unless maybe in a wee hobby flock. There are so many production systems and ewe breeds in the UK that they are used on, no one ‘type’ will suit them all.
I would suggest it requires a different ram to type ewe lambs, to one to put over a flock of Shetlands, to one to go over some big, plain BFL crosses and whether lambing indoors in December or outside in May.

Having several types & lines developing within a flock also allows you to change direction slightly if the market changes, and to you to breed your own rams with known history, rather than having to take a gamble over someone else’s honesty and fettling skills.

 

[MDL POWERUP]

Personally I don’t really get this breeding one type thing in terminal sire breeds, unless maybe in a wee hobby flock. There are so many production systems and ewe breeds in the UK that they are used on, no one ‘type’ will suit them all.
I would suggest it requires a different ram to type ewe lambs, to one to put over a flock of Shetlands, to one to go over some big, plain BFL crosses and whether lambing indoors in December or outside in May.

Having several types & lines developing within a flock also allows you to change direction slightly if the market changes, and to you to breed your own rams with known history, rather than having to take a gamble over someone else’s honesty and fettling skills.

I agree, I have two types in general. Blocky gigoty sheep and then the longer strechtier sheep. The ones that fit in between these two types don't jump out at you as much.

 

[glensman]

Personally I don’t really get this breeding one type thing in terminal sire breeds, unless maybe in a wee hobby flock. There are so many production systems and ewe breeds in the UK that they are used on, no one ‘type’ will suit them all.
I would suggest it requires a different ram to type ewe lambs, to one to put over a flock of Shetlands, to one to go over some big, plain BFL crosses and whether lambing indoors in December or outside in May.

Having several types & lines developing within a flock also allows you to change direction slightly if the market changes, and to you to breed your own rams with known history, rather than having to take a gamble over someone else’s honesty and fettling skills.

I'll would be very surprised if I were to view your flock and they weren't pretty consistent to a general type.