Stick your finger in the air ….

kfpben

Member
Location
Mid Hampshire
A continual shrinking of the UKs farming base? from the national herds of pigs, cattle, sheep getting smaller as people pack up? to farms ending being working farms, with that the support industries that support agriculture will also continue to shrink? All very well saying prices are rising but out rising your out put is the inputs to produce?
It’s not continually shrinking though. Look at the graphs.
At least not over the past 10-15 years since the traumas of BSE, F&M etc. Yes farms may pack up but others continue to grow. More milk being produced more efficiently from fewer cows being an obvious example.
 

toquark

Member
This was a 200ac traditional farm until the 1990s when it was split into four units, each with a house and steading. It went from barely supporting one family to definitely not supporting four. BUT… there are now 4 families living and working in the countryside, 3 of us producing stock for the commercial market (the other one has a few horses and rents the bulk of his ground to me). We are very much hobbyists or lifestylers or whatever but I kind of like the idea that instead of the old farm just being subsumed by the neighbour and resulting in a loss of people, it’s gone the opposite way. This was allowed by a quirk in the planning system, but I think that the idea was good and could easily be replicated, there’s certainly demand out there from farmers kids looking for a first step to people looking for a lifestyle change.

The part time farming business model is one which is gathering momentum. Reduce inputs, lower expectations, find a nice day job and crack on.
 

som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
Has the UK ever had complete self sufficiency & security of food supply ?
Hasnt it been importing food from the New World, the Colonies, the Commonwealth & more lately from the EU for at least the last 3 - 400 years ?

as for the “getting a bit dry”, that is just a recurring theme on TFF. A couple of weeks without rain, or a couple of weeks of too much rain, & some start squealing like their throats been cut. It strikes me ( looking at it from an international perspective & comparing to other countries around the world ) that there is very little resilience built into the UK system. But, I guess that’s what a subsidised industry gets you. A safety net can be a real hindrance at times . . .

on the other hand, we export 75 % of our agricultural produce, so obviously have no trouble supplying our domestic requirements but it does mean we are highly reliant on export markets & international transportation. Without our international trade most farm businesses would fail, as our domestic market is too small. We are also heavily dependent on imports of fuel, fert, chemicals, machinery etc etc . As is the UK.
Ultimately, we ALL require peace, stable financial systems, international trade & ease of transportation around the world for our farm businesses to survive.

it’s much cheaper, easier & more profitable to just trade with everyone than it is to fight wars . . .

the only model that is immune to world problems is pretty much small, local, “peasant” type operations, with minimal inputs, a micro - local market & probably a barter system that isn’t reliant on financial institutions. Not much room for shiny “toys” in that scenario
farmers love to moan about the weather, myself included, its just our nature. But we live in a green and pleasant land, without the climatic extremes. But we can suffer from to wet/cold/dry/hot, spells, simply because they are not 'normal', and we are unprepared.

And it is not possible to be totally self sufficient in growing our own food. We are an over populated island, that exists by trading, with the rest of the world, and been pretty good at it, The 'EU' 50yrs, reduced the reliance of trading elsewhere, with the withdrawal from the EU, we have to start trading with the world again.

We are a wealthy country, and countries want to trade with us again, that is beyond doubt, the number of new, or rolled over, trade deals, that have been done, proves that. But those deals, require reciprocal trade, and for many countries, their export, has traditionally been food, we export services, machinery etc, and import food. And UK govs, over the last few 100 yrs, have had policy, that matches that trade, or put another way, those goods being exported, are more important than farm produce here. And who is to say, that is wrong policy ? It probably is good policy, the % of people that work, in industry, is much greater than those that work in agriculture, why should we be 'special' ?

We are special, only when events occur, that interfere with food imports, WW2 a classic example. Pretty certain we won't see food convoys being torpedoed though. But the world is no longer as safe as it was, and that will have repercussions, and then we have climate change.

As farmers, we adapt, with lots of moaning, to new farming conditions, l actually think we are experts at adapting to new 'conditions'. Farming is now at a changing point, we see which way the guv want us to go, and we see food inflation as well, the two don't sit together, so farming is wobbling between the two, not quite sure which one will come out, on top.

Its really the uncertainty that we are 'scared' of, farming is a long term business, living in a short term world, and basically, that is the problem.
However, we have advantages over other industries, nobody can do without food, virtually everything else, they can. We know global food production, is running on 'just about enough' status, and we know that, a weather disaster, in any major production area, now, with the Ukraine situation, will cause hyper food inflation. The problem is, the guv doesn't realise that.

So we will all revert to type, and have a good old moan, but rapidly adapting to the 'new' trading conditions, we have done that many many times, very successfully, and will do it this time, when we know what they are.
 
Don't ever rely on the government. The EU have responded to this food crisis in the making by throwing 500 million at it. If I turn out my pockets right now it would have done European agriculture more good.

Our government couldn't run a proverbial in a brewery.

Expect food inflation and as ever, loads of lazy but hungry Joe publics spending their money. Twas ever thus. Avoid moving into any of these environ-mental schemes and farm like you have never farmed before.
 

DaveGrohl

Member
Location
Cumbria
farmers love to moan about the weather, myself included, its just our nature. But we live in a green and pleasant land, without the climatic extremes. But we can suffer from to wet/cold/dry/hot, spells, simply because they are not 'normal', and we are unprepared.

And it is not possible to be totally self sufficient in growing our own food. We are an over populated island, that exists by trading, with the rest of the world, and been pretty good at it, The 'EU' 50yrs, reduced the reliance of trading elsewhere, with the withdrawal from the EU, we have to start trading with the world again.

We are a wealthy country, and countries want to trade with us again, that is beyond doubt, the number of new, or rolled over, trade deals, that have been done, proves that. But those deals, require reciprocal trade, and for many countries, their export, has traditionally been food, we export services, machinery etc, and import food. And UK govs, over the last few 100 yrs, have had policy, that matches that trade, or put another way, those goods being exported, are more important than farm produce here. And who is to say, that is wrong policy ? It probably is good policy, the % of people that work, in industry, is much greater than those that work in agriculture, why should we be 'special' ?

We are special, only when events occur, that interfere with food imports, WW2 a classic example. Pretty certain we won't see food convoys being torpedoed though. But the world is no longer as safe as it was, and that will have repercussions, and then we have climate change.

As farmers, we adapt, with lots of moaning, to new farming conditions, l actually think we are experts at adapting to new 'conditions'. Farming is now at a changing point, we see which way the guv want us to go, and we see food inflation as well, the two don't sit together, so farming is wobbling between the two, not quite sure which one will come out, on top.

Its really the uncertainty that we are 'scared' of, farming is a long term business, living in a short term world, and basically, that is the problem.
However, we have advantages over other industries, nobody can do without food, virtually everything else, they can. We know global food production, is running on 'just about enough' status, and we know that, a weather disaster, in any major production area, now, with the Ukraine situation, will cause hyper food inflation. The problem is, the guv doesn't realise that.

So we will all revert to type, and have a good old moan, but rapidly adapting to the 'new' trading conditions, we have done that many many times, very successfully, and will do it this time, when we know what they are.
I like this post. Lots in there that it’s difficult to argue with. Only thing is, individual farmers will respond to the new era in individual ways. We’re not one homogenous mass no matter how many people call us "an industry". We’ll all react differently. To quote my favourite film; we’re all individuals.
 

som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
I like this post. Lots in there that it’s difficult to argue with. Only thing is, individual farmers will respond to the new era in individual ways. We’re not one homogenous mass no matter how many people call us "an industry". We’ll all react differently. To quote my favourite film; we’re all individuals.
and that, is a problem, if only we could all work together ...........
but we are all different, no doubt about that, and we will all look at change, in different ways, but a very large %, will moan, but quietly adapt their farm, to cope.
 

Farmer Roy

Member
Arable Farmer
and that, is a problem, if only we could all work together ...........
but we are all different, no doubt about that, and we will all look at change, in different ways, but a very large %, will moan, but quietly adapt their farm, to cope.

tbh, in many ways you have to adapt as individuals, as every farm, every business, every family unit is different . . .

i think farmers need to stop looking for others to help them, support them, or hoping they will work together as a "group"

what i want out of my farm may be different to what you want, let alone the massive differences in environment
 

BrianV

Member
Livestock Farmer
Just wondering if Ukraine are now being welcomed into the EU with open arms how does that affect the CAP, with the size of Ukraine's farming area & very little chance of any monetary contributions I would imagine the leaves will be falling off the CAP money tree pretty quickly & French farmers in particular are not going to be at all happy.
 

teslacoils

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
Don't ever rely on the government. The EU have responded to this food crisis in the making by throwing 500 million at it. If I turn out my pockets right now it would have done European agriculture more good.
£1.50 per EU citizen. I don't think Starbucks will be shitting themselves over reduced sales of skinny soy salted caramel mocha lattes as folk have to pay £5 for s chicken rather than £4.
 

som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
Just wondering if Ukraine are now being welcomed into the EU with open arms how does that affect the CAP, with the size of Ukraine's farming area & very little chance of any monetary contributions I would imagine the leaves will be falling off the CAP money tree pretty quickly & French farmers in particular are not going to be at all happy.
ukraine going in, how many coming out ? France will be interesting next week.
Germany is heading for a serious recession, France might alter, we have left, so who is going to cough up the money, for the CAP ?
simple answer, its not there anymore, unless Germany borrows it, and they are not going to be happy doing that.
Unless the commission can come up with a practical working solution, to manage the budget, restore trust, and follow the 'peoples' desire to move away from the 'states of Europe', its on a downhill slope. Brexit started the decline, covid gave it a kick, Ukraine has created a huge problem, its the correct policy to join, its whether the EU can afford her to join. National budgets are under stress, most countries will have to re-arm, deal with millions of refugees, quite correctly, supply arms to Ukraine, build those stocks back up, and deal with recession. Not sure its economically possible, however much we would wish it. The re-building of Ukraine, could absorb the whole EU budget for several years.
 

Swarfmonkey

Member
Location
Hampshire
£2bn is chump change as far as government expenditure goes. Heck, it's barely 2% of what the Treasury is planning to spend this year.

The NHS spends more than that a year just settling medical negligence claims. It costs the Treasury twice that in tax breaks to charities a year. Tax credits and housing benefit cost the Treasury twenty times that amount per year. Interest on the national debt this year will be more than forty times that amount.
 

J 1177

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Durham, UK
Iv got more chance of winning miss world than production subsidies being re introduced.
I think those in power will carry on blindly with their green agenda set by the pm and her mates the goldsmiths.
Farmers will adapt to the market forces and cut their cloth accordingly, not push production like those weapons at the nfu have suggested.
For the general public and those on low incomes, well its going to be awfull.
 

som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
Iv got more chance of winning miss world than production subsidies being re introduced.
I think those in power will carry on blindly with their green agenda set by the pm and her mates the goldsmiths.
Farmers will adapt to the market forces and cut their cloth accordingly, not push production like those weapons at the nfu have suggested.
For the general public and those on low incomes, well its going to be awfull.
yes and no, guv want's to continue with the green agenda, esp Boris, who may be 'influenced'! But as an election nears, he may find, he has to do 'something', or lose the election. Food inflation will hit some people hard, especially those who have used low interest rates, as an excuse to spend next years money, this year.
 

ski

Member
I can't see the general direction taken by every UK government for the last few decades changing. In fact I think that the general trend of not supporting productive agriculture will speed up in the future seeing as the only thing holding back change has been EU membership. Expect more rules and less help.
Super Mac

"Events dear boy, events"
 
Super Mac

"Events dear boy, events"
No still can't see it. Current "events" are making shocking headlines but most people will barely notice. So much of the UK's rural policy is tied up with moral crusades of one sort or another its going to take more than 10% on the price of people's shopping baskets to make a difference. Empty shelves and then I reckon things might start to change but that's never going to happen in the UK.
 

Make Tax Digital Software Poll

  • Quickbooks

    Votes: 34 16.2%
  • Sage

    Votes: 20 9.5%
  • Xero

    Votes: 97 46.2%
  • Other

    Votes: 59 28.1%

Man fined £300 for bonfire-related waste offences

  • 249
  • 0
Written by William Kellett from Agriland

court-640x360.jpg
A man has pleaded guilty at Newtownards Magistrates’ Court to waste offences relating to a bonfire next to the electrical sub-station on the Circular Road in Newtownards, Co. Down.

Gareth Gill (51) of Abbot’s Walk, Newtownards pleaded guilty to two charges under the Waste and Contaminated Land (Northern Ireland) Order 1997, for which he was fined £150 each and ordered to pay a £15 offender’s levy

On June 25, 2018, PSNI officers went to Gill’s yard, where they found a large amount of waste consisting of scrap wood, pallets, carpet and underlay.

Discussion with Northern Ireland Environment Agency (NIEA) officers confirmed the site...
Top