Stirling bull sales.

[Anymulewilldo]

I know that, but if working it out as a percentage of calf crop you have to allow for the fact that there will hopefully be several years of 30 calves, not just one.

Definitely, but there must be a line where you don’t get back the extra money spent on the bull in the calves? Especially if you are serving normal everyday type cows, not the show potential breeders?

 

[sodbuster]

4 calves its paid for, i'd be giving 8 or 10k

The calves dont cost nothing to produce though

 

[Bill the Bass]

I know that, but if working it out as a percentage of calf crop you have to allow for the fact that there will hopefully be several years of 30 calves, not just one.

A bull should last 6 years and still have a cull value of £1000 Let’s say he cost £11k to buy, less the £1k cull value. £10k divided by 6 is £1666 per year. A bull should serve 40 cows a year (more if you are autumn and spring calving. So 1666 divided by 40 cows is only £46 per cow per year for bull costs. You wouldn’t even get a straw of decent semen for that nowadays.

Back in the day, Robert Robinson of snipe house (800 suckler cows) used to say the money from the first pen of steers sold should go back on a bull, he regularly competed with pedigree men for the top Charolais bulls at Perth.

 

[Bill the Bass]

There was a lot of good bulls...still got 2 charolais at home if your stuck!

Still Carlisle and Stirling in May, plenty bullets to fire yet! But thanks anyways I will keep it in mind.

I liked the Burradon Bull, they seem in a good run of stock at present. The wee Allanfauld one was nice too.

 

[Agrivator]

A bull should last 6 years and still have a cull value of £1000 Let’s say he cost £11k to buy, less the £1k cull value. £10k divided by 6 is £1666 per year. A bull should serve 40 cows a year (more if you are autumn and spring calving. So 1666 divided by 40 cows is only £46 per cow per year for bull costs. You wouldn’t even get a straw of decent semen for that nowadays.

Back in the day, Robert Robinson of snipe house (800 suckler cows) used to say the money from the first pen of steers sold should go back on a bull, he regularly competed with pedigree men for the top Charolais bulls at Perth.

But how much was he getting in cow/calf subsidy? Assuming he was mainly LFA.

 

[Samcowman]

A bull should last 6 years and still have a cull value of £1000 Let’s say he cost £11k to buy, less the £1k cull value. £10k divided by 6 is £1666 per year. A bull should serve 40 cows a year (more if you are autumn and spring calving. So 1666 divided by 40 cows is only £46 per cow per year for bull costs. You wouldn’t even get a straw of decent semen for that nowadays.

Back in the day, Robert Robinson of snipe house (800 suckler cows) used to say the money from the first pen of steers sold should go back on a bull, he regularly competed with pedigree men for the top Charolais bulls at Perth.

Don’t forget the cost of keeping the bull for a year so your getting to £60/ calf born. Bulls here would probably average 4-5 years service due to problems. Last year had 1 broke his tackle, a Jaffa and another I culled for repeated lameness.

 

[Bill the Bass]

Don’t forget the cost of keeping the bull for a year so your getting to £60/ calf born. Bulls here would probably average 4-5 years service due to problems. Last year had 1 broke his tackle, a Jaffa and another I culled for repeated lameness.

obviously there is a cost to keeping him, but we are talking about outlay on a beast, a dear one will cost no more to keep than a cheap one within breed.

my six years calculation was based On an average. We just lost a bull after 3 seasons - he cost 9 grand but I have just cashed one for 950 that had done 14 and I gave another to go this year that started work in 2010. Bought well and looked after bulls should do well in excess of 6 years work.

my figures can be picked at infinitum - that’s not the point, I but it illustrates a point that you can easily justify spending strong money on a bull even before any genetic gains are considered.

 

[Bill the Bass]

But how much was he getting in cow/calf subsidy? Assuming he was mainly LFA.

don’t know - a lot probably, im just repeating what I read years ago in a magazine article about him.

 

[Northeastfarmer]

4 calves its paid for, i'd be giving 8 or 10k

You need a new one of these….

 

[Hilly]

A bull should last 6 years and still have a cull value of £1000 Let’s say he cost £11k to buy, less the £1k cull value. £10k divided by 6 is £1666 per year. A bull should serve 40 cows a year (more if you are autumn and spring calving. So 1666 divided by 40 cows is only £46 per cow per year for bull costs. You wouldn’t even get a straw of decent semen for that nowadays.

Back in the day, Robert Robinson of snipe house (800 suckler cows) used to say the money from the first pen of steers sold should go back on a bull, he regularly competed with pedigree men for the top Charolais bulls at Perth.

How many cows at snipe house now ?

 

[Bill the Bass]

How many cows at snipe house now ?

Haven’t a clue, they went down the stabiliser route didn’t they? You never hear much of them anymore

 

[Anymulewilldo]

Haven’t a clue, they went down the stabiliser route didn’t they? You never hear much of them anymore

So either they are quietly getting on very well with profitable but not show stopping cattle. OR they are quietly not saying anything because they aren’t worth talking about?
could go either way.

 

[M-J-G]

A bull should last 6 years and still have a cull value of £1000 Let’s say he cost £11k to buy, less the £1k cull value. £10k divided by 6 is £1666 per year. A bull should serve 40 cows a year (more if you are autumn and spring calving. So 1666 divided by 40 cows is only £46 per cow per year for bull costs. You wouldn’t even get a straw of decent semen for that nowadays.

Back in the day, Robert Robinson of snipe house (800 suckler cows) used to say the money from the first pen of steers sold should go back on a bull, he regularly competed with pedigree men for the top Charolais bulls at Perth.

I need to start selling semen to more folks that think like this, and bulls for that matter

The reality is that you can get semen from perfectly good bulls for a tenner and there are plenty of good bulls around below 5 grand, price is not really an indicator of quality in either.


The top priced simmental at Stirling was 30K and he'd have been of no interest to me at 3 grand, just like the famous 250K Lim heifer would be of no interest to me on those poor legs.

 

[Wellpark]

Glad I wasn't the only one that didn't see the value of the 30k Simmental
Better bulls at less than 10k

 

[top char]

I need to start selling semen to more folks that think like this, and bulls for that matter

The reality is that you can get semen from perfectly good bulls for a tenner and there are plenty of good bulls around below 5 grand, price is not really an indicator of quality in either.


The top priced simmental at Stirling was 30K and he'd have been of no interest to me at 3 grand, just like the famous 250K Lim heifer would be of no interest to me on those poor legs.

Getting semen off good simmental bulls is easier than getting the right ones for the job in the Charolais anyway! If your happy to bid away for the bull that you think is right for your herd, it could be for different reasons to others, e.g a premium for health status, tb4, known herd, everyone has a value in their mind before they splash whatever amount they are confortable with.
Totally agree with what your saying...plenty good bulls missed by many, or just not the majorities cup of tea hence the lower value. Feel free to private msg with you honest opinion on the bulls i had there M-J-G!

 

[M-J-G]

Glad I wasn't the only one that didn't see the value of the 30k Simmental
Better bulls at less than 10k

He wasn't even the best animal from that breeder, let alone in the sale.
With a bull with legs like that I just put an X beside him in the catalogue.

 

[M-J-G]

Getting semen off good simmental bulls is easier than getting the right ones for the job in the Charolais anyway! If your happy to bid away for the bull that you think is right for your herd, it could be for different reasons to others, e.g a premium for health status, tb4, known herd, everyone has a value in their mind before they splash whatever amount they are confortable with.
Totally agree with what your saying...plenty good bulls missed by many, or just not the majorities cup of tea hence the lower value. Feel free to private msg with you honest opinion on the bulls i had there M-J-G!

Of course people will have a budget and sales often command strong prices, but plenty aren't worth in IMO, and plenty of underdog lesser priced and home sold bulls will do just as well.
I've never paid higher prices for bulls but I have used a few straws off higher priced bulls and have been regularly disappointed.

I didn't watch many Char bulls, but overall what I did see looked very good.

 

[BAF]

It's the same with any stock, cows, sheep, pigs, horses, quite often it's not what you've got it's who you are that commands the premium. If you're into showing and spend a lot of money and time corning and grooming and you're seen out and about winning shiny ribbons then your stock is automatically worth more than the next man. Then you've got all their mates on the phone or just out of sight running the bids up to push the price up and get a bit of auction fever going. Most of the time you're much better off buying something you like for less money than something you're supposed to like even though its only from their B team or maybe even their C team, because it's bred by Mr X and won a ribbon in a class once against a pantomime cow.
Yes we're all trying to make money...or at least make the smallest loss we can for tax reasons but I think the most important thing is having stock you like to look at. They're a long time stood in the field for you to look at them and think I don't like the way that things ears or the way it's tail sits.

 

[Bill the Bass]

So either they are quietly getting on very well with profitable but not show stopping cattle. OR they are quietly not saying anything because they aren’t worth talking about?
could go either way.

I’m not passing judgement

I need to start selling semen to more folks that think like this, and bulls for that matter

The reality is that you can get semen from perfectly good bulls for a tenner and there are plenty of good bulls around below 5 grand, price is not really an indicator of quality in either.


The top priced simmental at Stirling was 30K and he'd have been of no interest to me at 3 grand, just like the famous 250K Lim heifer would be of no interest to me on those poor legs.

I agree, plenty bulls to be had for bargain money if all you want to do is bull a few cross bred cows. However, if you need stock of a certain health status (johnes 1 and bvd free for us) and you have to play the silly EBV game and get something that is fresh blood then your options can be hampered. There will be commercial men on this game too especially those retaining their own heifers.

Out of interest, how would you cost your bulls per cow? I am at a loss as to see any other way than start cost less end value divided by number of years divided by number of cows served per year? It’s a pretty standard calculation for costing gross margins.

 

[Anymulewilldo]

I’m not passing judgement

I agree, plenty bulls to be had for bargain money if all you want to do is bull a few cross bred cows. However, if you need stock of a certain health status (johnes 1 and bvd free for us) and you have to play the silly EBV game and get something that is fresh blood then your options can be hampered. There will be commercial men on this game too especially those retaining their own heifers.

Out of interest, how would you cost your bulls per cow? I am at a loss as to see any other way than start cost less end value divided by number of years divided by number of cows served per year? It’s a pretty standard calculation for costing gross margins.

I reckon that’s the only true way of doing it? Plus £xxx a year maintenance