Stitching in Plantain and Chicory, rates??

[steveR]

Going to be stitching in some clover shortly...

I would like to add some Plantain and Chicory to the mix, but cannot get my head around seed rates! Anyone got a recommendation at that worked for them

Going into PP, eithe broadcast and harrowed, or DD.

 

[Bob c]

@Great In Grass
be intrested to here veiws

 

[neilo]

A kilo to the acre of each, purely because most will either not strike, or be swamped out by the existing grass?

I’d suggest the chicory and plantain seed is too expensive to pee about with like that, apart from on a very small scale experimental basis to satisfy your curiosity.

 

[Al R]

I put 600g of each into my new leys and results are good. I now have both growing in fields which are PP as the sheep have eaten them in flower and then poo’d out when moved, same with clover.

 

[Great In Grass]

0.5kg to 0.8kg per acre for Chicory and 0.2kg to 0.5kg for Plantain is a good starting point.

 

[neilo]

The OP is talking about stitching in, not adding to a reseed.

I went to a local farming connect meeting recently, demonstrating (on an organic dairy unit) stitching in PRG, white clover, plantain and chicory.
They’d used a Wox machine, doing several passes first to rake out the weed grasses, before sowing the new seeds.
Although I thought it looked bare in the bottom, the PRG and white clover had clearly taken well. However, after just 12 months, the chicory plants were few and far between, and it was almost impossible to find a plantain plant.

As above, it would be an interesting experiment to play with, but don’t throw too much at seed expecting a great success imo.

 

[JSmith]

Interesting you say about plantain, I dd a mix of different things into bare fields after cutting silage and the chicory came really well but now you’ve mentioned it I’ve not noticed the plantain! This was on some new ground we took on an it’s really old worn out permanent pasture so I think that helped with the chicory being fast growing and the pp being very slow to get going again!!

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Going to be stitching in some clover shortly...

I would like to add some Plantain and Chicory to the mix, but cannot get my head around seed rates! Anyone got a recommendation at that worked for them

Going into PP, eithe broadcast and harrowed, or DD.

To be honest like Niel say yiu be lucky if it takes unless it's a good seed be and the ley is extremely lazy , I don't sow more than 0.35 kg in a ley here or it takes over as a proper reseed ,it's like that ,other farms it don't do so well, but I don't want it to swamp the other stuff
I have never put 1 kg in a mix though ,to thick imo

 

[sheepdogtrail]

You should not need more than 1 kg per hectare on both of those. At that rate, there will be a plant every 8". They can be stitched in during the grass dormant season if you have such a thing. If drilling is your only option I would wait until you have a tight group of critters who can follow within 48 hours. It is very easy to put the seed too deep. If that happens, it might be a year or so before you will see the plants. They need to be weathered into optimal germination conditions.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

It depends on how you intend to graze it - I would suggest you use reasonably high seedrates if you graze more than 4-5 times per year, as you will lose a lot of plants.
If you graze hard, less frequently, then you won't lose as many, and more will reproduce naturally.

 

[sheepdogtrail]

I agree with @Kiwi Pete . This is where cultivar(s) can be helpful.

It is really about putting something there that offers a advantage to you and your animals over what is there now.

If I knew your soil type and your grazing animals and their collective mass as a unit and any possible shifting schedule, I might be able to offer more of my thoughts.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

It depends on how you intend to graze it - I would suggest you use reasonably high seedrates if you graze more than 4-5 times per year, as you will lose a lot of plants.
If you graze hard, less frequently, then you won't lose as many, and more will reproduce naturally.

Herbal leys are expensive, I don't see the point of investing in one if your not going to manage the stock accordingly, if you go overboard with one variety it will be to the detriment of another that could upset the balance of the ley , I.e clovers , that's my thoughts anyhow

 

[steveR]

A kilo to the acre of each, purely because most will either not strike, or be swamped out by the existing grass?

I’d suggest the chicory and plantain seed is too expensive to pee about with like that, apart from on a very small scale experimental basis to satisfy your curiosity.

As much as anything, it was a comment here oin TFF to the effect that they were a doddle to establish in an existing ley!

 

[steveR]

The OP is talking about stitching in, not adding to a reseed.

I went to a local farming connect meeting recently, demonstrating (on an organic dairy unit) stitching in PRG, white clover, plantain and chicory.
They’d used a Wox machine, doing several passes first to rake out the weed grasses, before sowing the new seeds.
Although I thought it looked bare in the bottom, the PRG and white clover had clearly taken well. However, after just 12 months, the chicory plants were few and far between, and it was almost impossible to find a plantain plant.

As above, it would be an interesting experiment to play with, but don’t throw too much at seed expecting a great success imo.

Thought 4-5ha as an experiment once we hit a wet spell, if it's still early enough.

 

[steveR]

You should not need more than 1 kg per hectare on both of those. At that rate, there will be a plant every 8". They can be stitched in during the grass dormant season if you have such a thing. If drilling is your only option I would wait until you have a tight group of critters who can follow within 48 hours. It is very easy to put the seed too deep. If that happens, it might be a year or so before you will see the plants. They need to be weathered into optimal germination conditions.

Cheers. Hence my original question as to whether to spread.harrow, or DD.

In an ideal world, I would start again with a worn out ley, but

To be honest like Niel say yiu be lucky if it takes unless it's a good seed be and the ley is extremely lazy , I don't sow more than 0.35 kg in a ley here or it takes over as a proper reseed ,it's like that ,other farms it don't do so well, but I don't want it to swamp the other stuff
I have never put 1 kg in a mix though ,to thick imo

Thank you.

 

[steveR]

Herbal leys are expensive, I don't see the point of investing in one if your not going to manage the stock accordingly, if you go overboard with one variety it will be to the detriment of another that could upset the balance of the ley , I.e clovers , that's my thoughts anyhow

Very expensive!! I had a bit of help from Severn Trent to establish some here.

There are existing PP leys here, some good, some less so, but all would benefit from a bit more resilience and variety. I will hazard that 40 years ago, they were a much more varied species mix, but MCPA and the like, have cleared out a lot....

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Very expensive!! I had a bit of help from Severn Trent to establish some here.

There are existing PP leys here, some good, some less so, but all would benefit from a bit more resilience and variety. I will hazard that 40 years ago, they were a much more varied species mix, but MCPA and the like, have cleared out a lot....

@som farmer is the Chicory expert
To be honest I can't get overseeding to work on my system apart from clovers sometimes , grass just swamps everything, I've not tried overseeding Chicory though , but it will be a slow germinatater ,around 14 days

 

[steveR]

@som farmer is the Chicory expert
To be honest I can't get overseeding to work on my system apart from clovers sometimes , grass just swamps everything, I've not tried overseeding Chicory though , but it will be a slow germinatater ,around 14 days

Ahhh, Welsh rainfall and good mixtures!!

 

[crashbox]

@som farmer ?

 

[Derrick Hughes]

@som farmer ?

Is he on holiday ,not been on for a bit