Straw for Muck

Andyrob

Moderator
Media
Ok, so I know alot of you guys talk about chopping your straw and for some I know its because your farms are massive.

But those who chop straw would it not be more helpful to bale and get the muck back?

Just trying to see why this doesn't work more often here in Northern Ireland as think the arable man has more to gain from it.
 
Ok, so I know alot of you guys talk about chopping your straw and for some I know its because your farms are massive.

But those who chop straw would it not be more helpful to bale and get the muck back?

Just trying to see why this doesn't work more often here in Northern Ireland as think the arable man has more to gain from it.


It doesn't work in Northern Ireland because the straw is valued more than gold! Plus there is no shortage of muck anywhere, a lot of men can get all the chicken muck they could ever want!
 

franklin

New Member
Comes down to timeliness. It's one thing if you have someone with a big Heston baler, chasers etc following the combine behind. But for those swapping for muck, it is more likely to be some old boy with an 20yr old round baler; baling it in 4ft rounds, stopping for breakfast, lunch, snack, tea; "leaving it another day" to get it just right; taking a week to clear the fields etc. I would swap straw for muck any day, but would you want to shake hands and do a deal in June, when you have no idea of the conditions in August / September.
 

Brisel

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Midlands
It's not an open market - good sustainable muck-for-straw agreements tend to be based on trust. I import thousands of tonnes of compost & sewage cake every year. I'd take plenty of FYM from aorund the area too as every acre of cereal straw is baled but I just can't seem to get an agreement. My neighbouring dairy farmer with more cows than acres seems to think that his sloppy slurry that he calls FYM is worth £12/tonne :sick:

My own FYM gets analysed & I have spread sheets to show the nutrient value per tonne vs bagged fertiliser, plus straw prices are published in the public domain. It's not rocket science.
 
It's not an open market - good sustainable muck-for-straw agreements tend to be based on trust. I import thousands of tonnes of compost & sewage cake every year. I'd take plenty of FYM from aorund the area too as every acre of cereal straw is baled but I just can't seem to get an agreement. My neighbouring dairy farmer with more cows than acres seems to think that his sloppy slurry that he calls FYM is worth £12/tonne :sick:

My own FYM gets analysed & I have spread sheets to show the nutrient value per tonne vs bagged fertiliser, plus straw prices are published in the public domain. It's not rocket science.

So different to northern ireland, that country is full of sh1t! So much hen manure, pig manure, cattle slurry. The choice is yours!
 

Brisel

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Midlands
FYM isn't worth what straw is.

Tonne for tonne? Part of the cost of FYM is the haulage & much of its value is lost to the air unless it is injected into the soil. If you are counting the additional traffic on the land (& its resulting compaction) to remove straw & apply ther manure then I get your point.
 
It isn't so much the nutrients that the fym offers but all the xtra goodies which help the soil microbes and worms. That is the real value of fym!

I know but are all those 'goodies' worth:

1. tractor and baler traffic running every 7-9m up the swath
2. loadall running all over the shop grabbing bales
3. tractor and bale trailers
4. muck pile tipped in the corner of the field
5. loader compacting soil around the much pile
6. tractor and muck spreader running every 8-12m spreading muck
7. Uneven distribution of the muck because its not processed like compost or sewage cake

On an arable farm with no livestock then its an awful lot of hassle compared to putting the chopper on. You can then still spread compost or fym if you want but you cut out points 1-3 which is a lot of traffic.

If its a mixed farm then yes 100% agree and I would be in the field spreading gym as much as possible, but at the same time looking at the bigger picture as the livestock were the main earner, where as with arable farming its all about the soil and swapping muck for straw is not good for the soil in terms of damage to it.
 
I know but are all those 'goodies' worth:

1. tractor and baler traffic running every 7-9m up the swath
2. loadall running all over the shop grabbing bales
3. tractor and bale trailers
4. muck pile tipped in the corner of the field
5. loader compacting soil around the much pile
6. tractor and muck spreader running every 8-12m spreading muck
7. Uneven distribution of the muck because its not processed like compost or sewage cake

On an arable farm with no livestock then its an awful lot of hassle compared to putting the chopper on. You can then still spread compost or fym if you want but you cut out points 1-3 which is a lot of traffic.

If its a mixed farm then yes 100% agree and I would be in the field spreading gym as much as possible, but at the same time looking at the bigger picture as the livestock were the main earner, where as with arable farming its all about the soil and swapping muck for straw is not good for the soil in terms of damage to it.


Possibly not, you could be right, but then you should have much reduced fertiliser inputs as well. It probably all depends on the year, a dry year it is fine. A wet year and it is a disaster!
 
Possibly not, you could be right, but then you should have much reduced fertiliser inputs as well. It probably all depends on the year, a dry year it is fine. A wet year and it is a disaster!

By chopping majority of our straw back in for the last 15 years and applying some sewage cake and compost means I have not bought any bagged P & K for 6 years and will not have to buy any for the next 10 years at a guess. Thats saving me at least £40/ac at current prices.

£350/t for 0:24:24 at 300kg/ha to give me 70kg/ha P & K
£42 x 1000ac = £42,000 x 10yrs = £420,000 thank you very much

If the likes of 0:24:24 or whatever bagged P & K price increases further then I am even more quids in.

Obviously I have a cost of the compost (sewage cake was foc whilst we used it) to offset against that saving but its a big saving.
 

franklin

New Member
Working wet / damp / green chopped straw into damp clay is no good either. Only way for me I think is to get some sheds built and some beasts in and be boos of the job. I am getting around to thinking that vast amounts of chopped straw is not the prefered route, but the only way to get the benefits without the hassle is to have it all "in house".
 
Working wet / damp / green chopped straw into damp clay is no good either. Only way for me I think is to get some sheds built and some beasts in and be boos of the job. I am getting around to thinking that vast amounts of chopped straw is not the prefered route, but the only way to get the benefits without the hassle is to have it all "in house".

Totally agree but your then tied to the stock 365 days per year which is not for me personally but I know the right thing to do is return to mixed farming.
 

Andy26

Moderator
Arable Farmer
Location
Northants
but the only way to get the benefits without the hassle is to have it all "in house".

but I know the right thing to do is return to mixed farming.

The economics I'm sure at some point will swing back in favour of mixed farming. As it stands the cost of labour or opportunity cost (think lifestyle) is to great versus the return.

I guess as long as the South Americans can do it so efficienctly/cheap then we're still some way off?
 
Depends on what stock you have - and what system you run!!

We used to have the easiest stock here for many years which was straw based Turkeys. Towards the end of us producing them the main sheds had automated feeders installed fed from silo's. All sheds had auto drinkers which then also provided the medication if required. They were strawed down every other day by hand but now that could be mechanised I am sure. From memory, as it was 20 years ago, it was about 2 hours work in the morning on average over the week (obviously longer when bedding down but a lot less when not) and about an hour at night. So say 3 hours per day on average.

They would come in as day old chicks so initially more time was spent which then reduced through the growing cycle. We used to kill, pluck and dress on site but we ended up sending them out as live birds towards the end - I guess it was similar to B & B pigs so to be honest not massively labour intensive when compared to the likes of dairy, beef and sheep.

Would I go back to that - no chance
Can you get staff to do it - not easily

All that for some muck?
 
We used to have the easiest stock here for many years which was straw based Turkeys. Towards the end of us producing them the main sheds had automated feeders installed fed from silo's. All sheds had auto drinkers which then also provided the medication if required. They were strawed down every other day by hand but now that could be mechanised I am sure. From memory, as it was 20 years ago, it was about 2 hours work in the morning on average over the week (obviously longer when bedding down but a lot less when not) and about an hour at night. So say 3 hours per day on average.

They would come in as day old chicks so initially more time was spent which then reduced through the growing cycle. We used to kill, pluck and dress on site but we ended up sending them out as live birds towards the end - I guess it was similar to B & B pigs so to be honest not massively labour intensive when compared to the likes of dairy, beef and sheep.

Would I go back to that - no chance
Can you get staff to do it - not easily

All that for some muck?

Must just be me being mad then!

I do like my livestock though!
 

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