Strikes

honeyend

Member
I am not sure what the situation is with the railways, probably a cocked hat of course. But the airlines, I have zero sympathy for. It should have been illegal for airlines to shed staff whilst at the same time receiving government bailouts. Our government has been far too soft on big business for far too long.
I have work with some now ex air crew. They found other jobs in covid, and covid gave the companies a chance to change their routes and conditions, as I had explained to me crew get a base wage but it was made up with allowances for stop overs, which have been reduced. The young can perhaps do it for the experience but those who have children and a home to keep are now not going back, these are already trained so to recruit they have to hire, train, and pass all the checks.
I think a lot of people are on unofficial 'strike', they have left their jobs because of covid and balance if they can manage its now not worth going back. The over 50's, who children are older and perhaps have less of mortgage, but which also are our trained experience workforce, have decided it's just not worth the stress, or go and work in a supermarket and do sixteen hours a week. We are 1.2 million workers short.
I looked at the newest survey from the NMC, and a lot of the 'new' nurses almost match the nurses that went back on the register for covid, most are over 55, and there are forty four over 70! There has been the will to work and help, but the majority of them, including me wouldn't want to work thirteen hour shifts, or be able to do them.
No one should be working full time, and having to top up from food banks. I lived through the 70's and even if money was tight, I lived at the side of a large council estate, no one was going to school to get food bags.

We have a double stress factor, covid which is causing short and long term sickness, and brexit, which is contracting the labour market.
The 'churn', from people going from job to job costs money, they make worker redundant, they rehire them they hope, on cheaper rates, and not having to pay a full pension in the future, or through an agency, the agency takes a cut. If they can not get workers, which is already happening in the NHS, they will end up paying more ,plus the training, plus the 'contractor' takes their cut and you get constant staff poaching.
The government sees business as a solution, that the quest to make profits will make them get the best for our money.( I am being kind, I think they want to help their mates to get our money) Great theory, but its a bit like tax avoidance, they just employ someone who works out how they can hang on to as much money as possible, pay the least tax, and provide a basic service, pay as little as possible to the people who actually do the work, and then only the shareholders or those who get a bonus are happy. Slight of hand, then blame workers for not working hard enough, 'we gave them all this money', and you can just about put any group of the week, in there from farmers to GP's.
 

SteveHants

Member
Livestock Farmer
No one should be working full time, and having to top up from food banks. I lived through the 70's and even if money was tight, I lived at the side of a large council estate, no one was going to school to get food bags.
This.

I was born in 80 and nothing like this has existed in my lifetime. If my parents are to be believed - born in 48 and 49, one of whom was a primary teacher in some of the roughest parts of Salford in the 70s, it didn't exist then either. I think the last generation to have experienced this was my grandparents.
 

DB67

Member
Location
Scotland
I think most people are unfortunately.

Most now seem to look at monthly payments, not how much something actually costs! Car salesman look at me like I've got 2 heads when I say I'm only interested in cost to change.
Farmers really do live in a world of their own.

not everyone has assets to fall back and can put things through a business.

Joe bloggs on 30k a year can’t rock up and buy a family car for 30k with cash these days. Most people live month to month and attempt to budget as such. Some will cut costs accordingly.
 

Chae1

Member
Location
Aberdeenshire
Farmers really do live in a world of their own.

not everyone has assets to fall back and can put things through a business.

Joe bloggs on 30k a year can’t rock up and buy a family car for 30k with cash these days. Most people live month to month and attempt to budget as such. Some will cut costs accordingly.
I don't put car through business. It's bought out of mine and my wife's personal money. Nothing to do with any assets to fall back on.
 

robs1

Member
I have work with some now ex air crew. They found other jobs in covid, and covid gave the companies a chance to change their routes and conditions, as I had explained to me crew get a base wage but it was made up with allowances for stop overs, which have been reduced. The young can perhaps do it for the experience but those who have children and a home to keep are now not going back, these are already trained so to recruit they have to hire, train, and pass all the checks.
I think a lot of people are on unofficial 'strike', they have left their jobs because of covid and balance if they can manage its now not worth going back. The over 50's, who children are older and perhaps have less of mortgage, but which also are our trained experience workforce, have decided it's just not worth the stress, or go and work in a supermarket and do sixteen hours a week. We are 1.2 million workers short.
I looked at the newest survey from the NMC, and a lot of the 'new' nurses almost match the nurses that went back on the register for covid, most are over 55, and there are forty four over 70! There has been the will to work and help, but the majority of them, including me wouldn't want to work thirteen hour shifts, or be able to do them.
No one should be working full time, and having to top up from food banks. I lived through the 70's and even if money was tight, I lived at the side of a large council estate, no one was going to school to get food bags.

We have a double stress factor, covid which is causing short and long term sickness, and brexit, which is contracting the labour market.
The 'churn', from people going from job to job costs money, they make worker redundant, they rehire them they hope, on cheaper rates, and not having to pay a full pension in the future, or through an agency, the agency takes a cut. If they can not get workers, which is already happening in the NHS, they will end up paying more ,plus the training, plus the 'contractor' takes their cut and you get constant staff poaching.
The government sees business as a solution, that the quest to make profits will make them get the best for our money.( I am being kind, I think they want to help their mates to get our money) Great theory, but its a bit like tax avoidance, they just employ someone who works out how they can hang on to as much money as possible, pay the least tax, and provide a basic service, pay as little as possible to the people who actually do the work, and then only the shareholders or those who get a bonus are happy. Slight of hand, then blame workers for not working hard enough, 'we gave them all this money', and you can just about put any group of the week, in there from farmers to GP's.

This.

I was born in 80 and nothing like this has existed in my lifetime. If my parents are to be believed - born in 48 and 49, one of whom was a primary teacher in some of the roughest parts of Salford in the 70s, it didn't exist then either. I think the last generation to have experienced this was my grandparents.
In the 1970's people tightened their belts and got on with it, I'm not saying that there arent people who are really hard up but when you see newsxarticles about food banks you dont see people who look like they are starving very often well over weight, dressed well etc, like all things poverty is relative
 

honeyend

Member
dont see people who look like they are starving very often well over weight, dressed well etc, like all things poverty is relative
So you want they to look as if they are starving and be badly dressed, before they get help?
The boom shops in most town centres are charity shops, and when you have not enough money you tend to live on cheap carbs, pasta, bread, if you are lucky potatoes. Being over weight is not a sign of good nutrition, and the protein part is getting more expensive, so people eat less and try an fill up, because it looks like they get a lot for their money, and its heavily advertised, with refined carbs
 

7610 super q

Never Forgotten
Honorary Member
Farmers really do live in a world of their own.

not everyone has assets to fall back and can put things through a business.

Joe bloggs on 30k a year can’t rock up and buy a family car for 30k with cash these days. Most people live month to month and attempt to budget as such. Some will cut costs accordingly.
I dunno. If fert and diesel is still high next year, and grain falls back to £200/ ton or less, could be a few thinking about not planting. And if you don't plant anything, where's your income ?
And we don't all get subsidies BTW, before that old chestnut gets wheeled out.........
 

farmerm

Member
Location
Shropshire
Farmers really do live in a world of their own.

not everyone has assets to fall back and can put things through a business.

Joe bloggs on 30k a year can’t rock up and buy a family car for 30k with cash these days. Most people live month to month and attempt to budget as such. Some will cut costs accordingly.
If Joe bloggs is living payday to pay payday with no reserves then they are dumb fools to be driving around in a £30k car on tick.
 

Longlowdog

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Aberdeenshire
@farmerm exactly, I was mid way through this post when you replied. The problem with the 30k income 30k car statement is not with the economy but with people on 30k being programmed to believe they should be in a 30k car. I know too many folk who have bought into that fallacy and who are now trapped in a spiral of increasing car payments for vehicles which are becoming cheaper and of lower spec' with every time they fulfill their robotised, Jones keeping up with two yearly swap as they roll over their payments.
 

kiwi pom

Member
Location
canterbury NZ
I dunno. If fert and diesel is still high next year, and grain falls back to £200/ ton or less, could be a few thinking about not planting. And if you don't plant anything, where's your income ?
And we don't all get subsidies BTW, before that old chestnut gets wheeled out.........
Plenty of folk looking for staff according to TFF. Join the workforce?(y)
 

Hindsight

Member
Location
Lincolnshire
So you want they to look as if they are starving and be badly dressed, before they get help?
The boom shops in most town centres are charity shops, and when you have not enough money you tend to live on cheap carbs, pasta, bread, if you are lucky potatoes. Being over weight is not a sign of good nutrition, and the protein part is getting more expensive, so people eat less and try an fill up, because it looks like they get a lot for their money, and its heavily advertised, with refined carbs

Don't agree. Good nutrition is available and relatively cheaply in the same supermarket as I see when compared to what I note other shoppers have in their trolleys at the checkout. I do our family shop, have done for years. Find it fascinating what folk have in their trolleys. And what they do not have. Potatoes are very cheap - do I see many in trolleys - no. Veg is cheap, do I see much in trolleys - no. Maccie Ds is awful do I see it busy, yes. I have just been into Grantham - Maccie Ds is busy - why, explain to me why folk have gone to Maccie Ds for breakfast. A bowl of cereal with a half apple chopped in it with the rest of the apple eaten raw, would be around 70 pence, rather than whatever a Big mac costs. I have limited sympathy for many - sorry if you find that offensive. Best wishes.
 

jondear

Member
Location
Devon

Even when they get a lump sum bonus the Unions say no!


Even when they get a lump sum bonus the Unions say no!
Nuts .Edit double nuts!
 

Hindsight

Member
Location
Lincolnshire
If Joe bloggs is living payday to pay payday with no reserves then they are dumb fools to be driving around in a £30k car on tick.

@farmerm exactly, I was mid way through this post when you replied. The problem with the 30k income 30k car statement is not with the economy but with people on 30k being programmed to believe they should be in a 30k car. I know too many folk who have bought into that fallacy and who are now trapped in a spiral of increasing car payments for vehicles which are becoming cheaper and of lower spec' with every time they fulfill their robotised, Jones keeping up with two yearly swap as they roll over their payments.

Concur, but there is an argument to be had for the security of a fixed PCP monthly payment than the potential larg expense of a repair to an older car, albeit the deprecation and funding cost is cheaper I know as I have just transfered £750 to my sons account to pay for a head gasket repair on the 2012 Peugeot 207 I bought him three years ago - paid £1200 for the car and he has it in Derby but is on a low salary and paying some buy to let landlord most of that in rent! Funny old world.
 

Exfarmer

Member
Location
Bury St Edmunds
So you want they to look as if they are starving and be badly dressed, before they get help?
The boom shops in most town centres are charity shops, and when you have not enough money you tend to live on cheap carbs, pasta, bread, if you are lucky potatoes. Being over weight is not a sign of good nutrition, and the protein part is getting more expensive, so people eat less and try an fill up, because it looks like they get a lot for their money, and its heavily advertised, with refined carbs
people in the 70's were not fat because they lived on expensive proteins, they all lived on carbs most would not have known a steak in their lives.
They did not starve since they had never had a foreign holiday or bought a car they could not pay cash for.
Look down any street and where are the old bangers?
people are going to food banks as it is another way of affording the lifestyle they want.
If you want to see why people are overweight, go to any of the multiplicity of coffee shops / cafes McDonald's etc. there you will find the answer, fat people consuming portions I could not countenance eating in one sitting.
 

Hindsight

Member
Location
Lincolnshire
people in the 70's were not fat because they lived on expensive proteins, they all lived on carbs most would not have known a steak in their lives.
They did not starve since they had never had a foreign holiday or bought a car they could not pay cash for.
Look down any street and where are the old bangers?
people are going to food banks as it is another way of affording the lifestyle they want.
If you want to see why people are overweight, go to any of the multiplicity of coffee shops / cafes McDonald's etc. there you will find the answer, fat people consuming portions I could not countenance eating in one sitting.

I went to Groundswell yesterday. Made the pilgrimage possibly a better description. Anyway, I listened to the Henry Dimbleby talk. He was regurgitating the stats on health effect of diets. And hand wringing. Wittering about the difficulties faced by food manufacturers etc, and I said to the farmer I was with if the government was serious if would today ban all Take aways. Job done. Problem solved.
 

robs1

Member
So you want they to look as if they are starving and be badly dressed, before they get help?
The boom shops in most town centres are charity shops, and when you have not enough money you tend to live on cheap carbs, pasta, bread, if you are lucky potatoes. Being over weight is not a sign of good nutrition, and the protein part is getting more expensive, so people eat less and try an fill up, because it looks like they get a lot for their money, and its heavily advertised, with refined carbs
If you are poor you cant afford food regardless of what sort of food, I'm all for supporting those who have hit hard times and give a reasonable amount to charities over the year, but we have created a society which expects the government to solve every problem so we can carry on without helping ourselves.
 

honeyend

Member
If you are poor you cant afford food regardless of what sort of food, I'm all for supporting those who have hit hard times and give a reasonable amount to charities over the year, but we have created a society which expects the government to solve every problem so we can carry on without helping ourselves.
It has come to the point where you are helping your self, i.e in work or unable to work through disability, and ends do not meet.
With the cost of fuel, not every one is on public transport routes, child care, and higher energy costs, what do you do? These are not things people can control.
I looked in to claiming PIP, I was so ill I didn't claim my SSP, they just not give you the money, you have to be assessed, the days when you get state benefits just by filling in a form are over. I have worked since I was sixteen, I am not eligible for state pension yet, so if I am too ill to work I would need hand outs, if I lived on my own.

I see fifty to a hundred people a day, I can not judge their financial circumstances by how they look. When my mum and step dad were living on stock feed carrots and tatties, no one would have known when they went out, they had 'best' clothes on. When my mum died most of her clothes in the wardrobe were thirty years old, she did her housework in cast offs.
 

melted welly

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
DD9.
No one should be working full time, and having to top up from food banks. I lived through the 70's and even if money was tight, I lived at the side of a large council estate, no one was going to school to get food bags.

A friend organises casual labour to work on farms, packers, factories etc. He is having a difficult time as a lot of the guys only want to work 3 or 4 days a week now, and occasionally only one, plus he’s plagued with no-shows.

He was in town one day and met a chap who’d called in sick that morning walking down the high street with bags of shopping. When he collared the chap, he was told he couldn’t work that day as it was food bank day and he’d been up to collect his “shopping”.

The crafty beggars will work a short week then head up the food bank waving their payslip for a days work that week and make on that’s all they earn, then come away with food for the week.

Is it a form of wealth redistribution? Feels like old fashioned taking the pee.
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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