Strip till vs direct drilling

[Jamin]

We farm on a mix of soils from sand to heavy clay. Larger percentage of the farm is on heavier soils and cropping is mainly combinables with some vining peas and sugar beets included. We are considering strip till but is this a good stepping stone to direct drill or should be move straight to direct drilling. We will have to keep some heavier cultivations in the rotation for sugar beet and vining peas to begin with but will look to reduce the amount of cultivations as we can. Be interested to hear people’s thoughts on both avenues and also any advice anyone has to offer from their own experiences. TIA Ben

 

[Clive]

get a drill that can cope with both zero till and cultivation situations

if you are keeping heavy cultivators then little gain in a strip till drill IMO to be had

 

[Andrew K]

Whats the current drill, could it be adapted?

 

[Jamin]

We currently run with a topdown followed by either a Vaderstad rapid or a Horsch sprinter 6. Thinking of selling Vaderstad and was initially considering replacing with a Mzuri or Claydon and not topdowning ahead of them but I have been wondering more recently whether we can swap second drill to a more direct drill which would work either straight in or into very minimal cultivation situations.

 

[Matt77]

Is the plan to just reduce costs, improve soil or other? I’ve just moved over to strip till and so far I’m happy, we had a Mzuri on demo for winter wheat and that did well and then also had another demo in the spring and planted beans and spring wheat with it into different types of cultivation. It worked fine in over wintered ploughing, over wintered deep cultivation and also in to unmoved stubble, both wheat and beans were a success for us and we now own a Mzuri pro till. We did run a Vaderstad and work the hell out of the soil in front of it.

 

[Jamin]

Is the plan to just reduce costs, improve soil or other? I’ve just moved over to strip till and so far I’m happy, we had a Mzuri on demo for winter wheat and that did well and then also had another demo in the spring and planted beans and spring wheat with it into different types of cultivation. It worked fine in over wintered ploughing, over wintered deep cultivation and also in to unmoved stubble, both wheat and beans were a success for us and we now own a Mzuri pro till. We did run a Vaderstad and work the hell out of the soil in front of it.

The hope will be to reduce costs and improve soil. With Beet in the rotation it will be difficult to achieve direct drilling but hoping we can achieve the minimal amount of heavy cultivations.

Our average field size is about 6-7ha so headlands make up a large part of the farm and for that reason I’m nervous of going direct drilling but I could be worrying about nothing.

 

[Douglasmn]

We currently run with a topdown followed by either a Vaderstad rapid or a Horsch sprinter 6. Thinking of selling Vaderstad and was initially considering replacing with a Mzuri or Claydon and not topdowning ahead of them but I have been wondering more recently whether we can swap second drill to a more direct drill which would work either straight in or into very minimal cultivation situations.

Anything wrong with the current system?

 

[Jamin]

Anything wrong with the current system?

Current system produces good results but costs are to high and we rely on presses and powerharrows to make a seedbed. Feel we need to explore alternative avenues which will improve soil OM but also reduce time and fuel use/ha.

 

[Brisel]

We farm on a mix of soils from sand to heavy clay. Larger percentage of the farm is on heavier soils and cropping is mainly combinables with some vining peas and sugar beets included. We are considering strip till but is this a good stepping stone to direct drill or should be move straight to direct drilling. We will have to keep some heavier cultivations in the rotation for sugar beet and vining peas to begin with but will look to reduce the amount of cultivations as we can. Be interested to hear people’s thoughts on both avenues and also any advice anyone has to offer from their own experiences. TIA Ben

I've gone to strip till as a stepping stone to no till. Try some different drills out - Mzuri best for heavy land as you've got extra consolidation behind the leading legs but extra hp needed. Root crops are the big question mark here. Beet & no till is a brave mixture - any lifting in the wet or late & you'll have compaction that needs sorting. A deep tine might just smear. Keep a small plough & ph combi for that?

My main worry about going straight to no till was that the soils weren't ready & my employers didn't want to see a drop in output as the land "converted" to no till.

If you're down in Dorset, come and see how I'm getting on with a Claydon Hybrid but no root crops or maize here to complicate matters. A trip to Bourne to meet Tony Reynolds is worth it IMO. He'll tell you what did & didn't work for him when he suddenly made the switch to full no till, warts and all!

 

[Jamin]

I've gone to strip till as a stepping stone to no till. Try some different drills out - Mzuri best for heavy land as you've got extra consolidation behind the leading legs but extra hp needed. Root crops are the big question mark here. Beet & no till is a brave mixture - any lifting in the wet or late & you'll have compaction that needs sorting. A deep tine might just smear. Keep a small plough & ph combi for that?

My main worry about going straight to no till was that the soils weren't ready & my employers didn't want to see a drop in output as the land "converted" to no till.

If you're down in Dorset, come and see how I'm getting on with a Claydon Hybrid but no root crops or maize here to complicate matters. A trip to Bourne to meet Tony Reynolds is worth it IMO. He'll tell you what did & didn't work for him when he suddenly made the switch to full no till, warts and all!

We are a fair way from Dorset but if we get further down the road will have a ride out.

Thankfully some of our customers are quite pro very min till or direct drilling but u do feel it’s risky as they won’t want a drop in output either. We started off looking at Mzuri but thing that puts me off that drill is the hp requirement. It goes against what I’m hoping to do and that is live without the high hp units. The direct drills offer that but guess it’s finding a system that works. What width Claydon do u run? Think your on similar area to us from previous conversations

 

[Brisel]

370hp with a mounted 6m hybrid. Tine depth is 4-6”. Mostly it’s plenty enough hp and the CVT gearbox drops the revs back but on steep or stiff ground we need them all. Only 2200 acres of combinables now but 50% spring cropping with plenty of cover crops, so around 1900 ac sown in the autumn. If I were still growing 3100 ac of combinables I’d buy a second hand no till tine or disc drill for cover crops or osr to help at peak times.

For the 6m Mzuri Pro Till we tried I’d be happier with 400 hp or would need to start unbolting wings or lifting legs to keep the output up.

I can’t remember your location but a day at Jeff Claydon’s farm would be useful IMO. Just don’t take your chequebook with you as he is quite persuasive!

 

[Jamin]

370hp with a mounted 6m hybrid. Tine depth is 4-6”. Mostly it’s plenty enough hp and the CVT gearbox drops the revs back but on steep or stiff ground we need them all. Only 2200 acres of combinables now but 50% spring cropping with plenty of cover crops, so around 1900 ac sown in the autumn. If I were still growing 3100 ac of combinables I’d buy a second hand no till tine or disc drill for cover crops or osr to help at peak times.

For the 6m Mzuri Pro Till we tried I’d be happier with 400 hp or would need to start unbolting wings or lifting legs to keep the output up.

I can’t remember your location but a day at Jeff Claydon’s farm would be useful IMO. Just don’t take your chequebook with you as he is quite persuasive!

We are only an hour or so from Jeff’s farm and hoping to go and have a look in a week or so time. I spoke to them the other day about the benefits of mounted over trailed as the mounted option looks far more nimble and less shunting around with a heavy drill. We would be drilling 3000 acres in the autumn but i would keep my 6m sprinter to take care of a chunk of the drilling to reduce the pressure on whatever the other drill we settle on is.

 

[Clive]

We currently run with a topdown followed by either a Vaderstad rapid or a Horsch sprinter 6. Thinking of selling Vaderstad and was initially considering replacing with a Mzuri or Claydon and not topdowning ahead of them but I have been wondering more recently whether we can swap second drill to a more direct drill which would work either straight in or into very minimal cultivation situations.

Sell rapid and get some low disturbance points for the sprinter

Keep cultivator for after crops where you need the tillage like beet

Save the money you would have spent on a new drill, do you really need two drills when you reduce your cultivation workload ?

A big part of the point of zerotill is cutting fixed costs and not just swapping one cost for another

 

[E_B]

Welcome to come here and have a look, South Norfolk. Mzuri drill, all soil types, straight into maize stubble. Can show the good and bad.

 

[Jamin]

Sell rapid and get some low disturbance points for the sprinter

Keep cultivator for after crops where you need the tillage like beet

Save the money you would have spent on a new drill, do you really need two drills when you reduce your cultivation workload ?

A big part of the point of zerotill is cutting fixed costs and not just swapping one cost for another

Couldn’t agree more. Guess that’s my thought behind the initial question is can I use sprinter as a zero till or very min till drill. We already run the Dutch Coulter’s so lower disturbance than the standard duetts.

We have run two drills for a while now as we are fairly spread out and average field size is small so we don’t achieve great output so use second drill to help our main machine.

Would be keeping topdown for ahead of beet and peas.

 

[Clive]

Couldn’t agree more. Guess that’s my thought behind the initial question is can I use sprinter as a zero till or very min till drill. We already run the Dutch Coulter’s so lower disturbance than the standard duetts.

We have run two drills for a while now as we are fairly spread out and average field size is small so we don’t achieve great output so use second drill to help our main machine.

Would be keeping topdown for ahead of beet and peas.

Think you have the answer, sprinter with right Coulter’s can be a perfectly ok zerotill drill, keep the wallet locked up imo until there is a little more certainty re combinable crop production

 

[Brisel]

Timing is everything with DD in the early days IMO. Especially on heavy land. Having plenty of drilling capacity won't be far wrong. Smearing in seed on land that is too wet will just haunt you afterwards. Under min till you could have got away with a bit of dodgy drilling without much yield loss.

Edit. Sorry about my inability to write intelligible English!