Strip till vs true DD ?

[Paddyman]

How about a strip till vs true dd (eg JD750) debate? I have had a Claydon for a few years and would be interested to go what I see as the next step to full dd.
But I am finding it hard to justify the change both financially and soil structurally.
Obviously there would be a weed benefit in the move as less disturbance. Hp and fuel saving is negligible esp as tractor fully depreciated and working well. Maybe better soil structure without the disturbance from leading tine.
Claydon seems to be better sowing beans which are important part of my rotation, and maybe makes tramline ruts easier to level out.
Having reduced my machinery since going dd to a minimum. I do not want 2 drills.

 

[Clive]

How about a strip till vs true dd (eg JD750) debate? I have had a Claydon for a few years and would be interested to go what I see as the next step to full dd.
But I am finding it hard to justify the change both financially and soil structurally.
Obviously there would be a weed benefit in the move as less disturbance. Hp and fuel saving is negligible esp as tractor fully depreciated and working well. Maybe better soil structure without the disturbance from leading tine.
Claydon seems to be better sowing beans which are important part of my rotation, and maybe makes tramline ruts easier to level out.
Having reduced my machinery since going dd to a minimum. I do not want 2 drills.

What's wrong with owning 2 drills ? I will have 2 drills by summer and in total they will cost less than I new vaddy rapid etc

It's capital employed you should be considering and not really the number of machines

To expect one machine to be ideal in all situations is like looking for the holy grail IMO

PS - have split this to a new thread

 

[Paddyman]

It's capital employed you should be considering

That is what I am considering.

Given strip till is giving good results in most circumstances. A good used true dd is going to cost 20-40 k. I end up with 2 drills on 250 ha. My machinery cost/ ha increases.

There will be some saving in fuel and herbicides hopefully. Will there be any long term soil benefit ? Or is my capital employed better elsewhere where there will be a better return ?

 

[Clive]

It's capital employed you should be considering

That is what I am considering.

Given strip till is giving good results in most circumstances. A good used true dd is going to cost 20-40 k. I end up with 2 drills on 250 ha. My machinery cost/ ha increases.

There will be some saving in fuel and herbicides hopefully. Will there be any long term soil benefit ? Or is my capital employed better elsewhere where there will be a better return ?

There was a Moore being sold on here for £2000 not long ago

I have seen 3m 750 box drills at circa 10k in the past and amaone primer as are very cheap hen they come up secondhand

If all goes to plan I will have spent less than 75k on my 2 drills and will have 14m worth of drilling capacity good for at least 3-4000ac of timely work

It's a myth you have to spend a fortune to dd - there are plenty of affordable options for anyone's budget surely ?

 

[martian]

Paddyman,
Like a lot of people on here, we'd been min-tilling for ten years or so before we went all no-till. Those ten years trained our ground up to be ready for zero soil movement (or so we hoped). Three quarters of the farm is looking fantastic, the rest isn't, but that's another story (we're blaming the weather). Everybody's soils are different evidently, and some convert to no-till quite easily, others don't, but the strip-till option is a good transition tool to 'true no-till' if that's where you want to go (and of course you do...). You'll find that not moving soil, when you can get away with it, pays off with less weed chit etc, as Clive has found this year, and will soon justify having another drill in your armoury. Two drills each used on half the acres, will last twice as long in your shed as one used on all your land, and give you optimum establishment leading to maximum possible yields. There may come a time when you only need the 'true no-till' drill, you'll have no trouble selling your strip-till machine to eager converts...

 

[SilliamWhale]

How about a strip till vs true dd (eg JD750) debate? I have had a Claydon for a few years and would be interested to go what I see as the next step to full dd.
But I am finding it hard to justify the change both financially and soil structurally.
Obviously there would be a weed benefit in the move as less disturbance. Hp and fuel saving is negligible esp as tractor fully depreciated and working well. Maybe better soil structure without the disturbance from leading tine.
Claydon seems to be better sowing beans which are important part of my rotation, and maybe makes tramline ruts easier to level out.
Having reduced my machinery since going dd to a minimum. I do not want 2 drills.

I'd sit on it a few more years if I were you. Get things working well with the Claydon and then phase in a John Deere when you have plenty of experience in a few more years. But you can get 750's cheaper and you won't lose a lot on them so its not as if they do cost a bomb. Mine cost 6k, looks like crap as its old but performs as well as a new one almost with all the bits on it.

I'd have thought getting one from France to Ireland is cheaper as getting one from UK ie Rosslare to Roscoff? Nothing that cheap on agriaffaires at the moment. I still reckon importing one from the USA could be viable for a 3m drill.

 

[stroller]

where are these cheap 750s? mascus and agri affaires?

 

[Clive]

where are these cheap 750s? mascus and agri affaires?

Nothing at the moment cheap but they do come up

As will days a 3m box would be worth importing from the USA

750a prices seem to have firmed nicely since the last few years - reckon if I sold mine right now I would make a profit !

 

[Elmsted]

Nothing at the moment cheap but they do come up

As will days a 3m box would be worth importing from the USA

750a prices seem to have firmed nicely since the last few years - reckon if I sold mine right now I would make a profit !

As you say on another thread if they are reluctant to sell new ones, then you are quids in.

 

[marco]

How about a strip till vs true dd (eg JD750) debate? I have had a Claydon for a few years and would be interested to go what I see as the next step to full dd.
But I am finding it hard to justify the change both financially and soil structurally.
Obviously there would be a weed benefit in the move as less disturbance. Hp and fuel saving is negligible esp as tractor fully depreciated and working well. Maybe better soil structure without the disturbance from leading tine.
Claydon seems to be better sowing beans which are important part of my rotation, and maybe makes tramline ruts easier to level out.
Having reduced my machinery since going dd to a minimum. I do not want 2 drills.

Why do you not want 2 drills? seems your farming circa 600 acres you could conceivably sow up your entire acreage in 3 days. I imported a 4 meter one into Ireland from Denmark for €13,000 and then spent about €5,000 doing it up inc new guttlers disks coulters bushings kits etc.

I'm in Tipperary and if you wanted to hire mine to try out for yourself i'm sure you could. I won't be selling my drill ever as we are mainly grass with some tillage so i'll be using it for stitching in grass as well as cereals. it's when you go and drill 50 acres and come back with just under 3/4 of a tank full of diesel left you realise your on to the right idea.

I know if i had your acreage i would definitly have a claydon/murzi and a 750A.

 

[doorknob]

I might compare having the right drill for the job to a combine with only one header. Kind of tough to combine wheat with a corn head, or combine corn with a pickup head.
When a tine opener style is needed, there is no way to get a disk opener to perform, and vise/versa. One would loose enough in failed crops from not having it planted right, to justify a second drill in short order. IMO. But ya have to do what you have to do.

I have chosen to run old tractors and combine, and spend the savings on planting, spraying, nutrient placement and add-ons for the combine to better deal with the residue for dd/no-till. Even though for a short time I will have to do some surface tillage to better deal with slugs, I am trying to get things setup to make dd work more often with my limited cropping rotations.