Stubble to stubble rates

[ajd132]

I will re-read it later but I don’t remember the farmer doing well out of it. Their income from the hybrid model was made up with BPS. That looks poor without it.

Elms/CS - it depends on what option it is and how it is managed but I think income and costs of stewardship should be treated differently from crop growing. The cost structure is very different. Stewardship is explicitly excluded from all my contract farming agreements, though I’ll end up managing the schemes in many cases anyway.

Why not just sod these agreements and just rent the land?

 

[Flat 10]

Why not just sod these agreements and just rent the land?

You know why. Tax benefits for the 'actively farming' landowner.
Presumably managing for elms will be actively farming?

 

[GeorgeK]

That's right. You don't have to ever have visited the field or even know where it is to farm it!

 

[7610 super q]

So..........to sum up, the contractor ain't happy cos there's no money in it, and the farmer ain't happy cos there's no money in it............

 

[Wigeon]

I have a hybrid arrangement where contractor and I sit down at the start of the year and work out roughly who is going to do what. He has set rates for things. I have a notional sum for covering the bits I do, plus a first charge for supplying the land. He gets a bit of profit if it's a good year, and has a guaranteed base if it's a shocker.

I cooked this up without an agent, which is best for everyone.

 

[ajd132]

You know why. Tax benefits for the 'actively farming' landowner.
Presumably managing for elms will be actively farming?

The main tax benefits being inheritance?

 

[Wigeon]

The main tax benefits being inheritance?

Principally yes, though trading income is always viewed more favourably than investment too.

 

[Flat 10]

The main tax benefits being inheritance?

Exactly.

 

[DrWazzock]

Only land agents could convince people that they are better off dividing the proceeds by two ( after they have their cut). That’s what it boils down to whichever way you look at it.

 

[Salopian_Will]

Just to be clear these rates are £140/acre plus a share of final profit or all in?

Personally I would be very wary about putting half of my farm down to fallow etc and reducing staff/kit as I would be very nervous as to how long we would be paid to do so. The figures surrounding the new ELMS look very small and I can only see them going one way. Once you are 'out' it is very difficult to get back in again.

 

[teslacoils]

Just to be clear these rates are £140/acre plus a share of final profit or all in?

Personally I would be very wary about putting half of my farm down to fallow etc and reducing staff/kit as I would be very nervous as to how long we would be paid to do so. The figures surrounding the new ELMS look very small and I can only see them going one way. Once you are 'out' it is very difficult to get back in again.

Stubble to stubble, so no profit share.

 

[teslacoils]

Actually, once you're out it's no difficulty to get back in.

 

[teslacoils]

Actually, once you're out it's no difficulty to get back in in terms of cropping your own farm again.

 

[DrWazzock]

I sometimes think a fresh start is what we need. Sell all the tackle and just buy/hire what we need. Use contractors as appropriate. We are absolutely lumbered up with junk.

 

[Salopian_Will]

Actually, once you're out it's no difficulty to get back in in terms of cropping your own farm again.

I suppose so - we could probably afford to keep everything but kit depreciates with age whether it is being used or not and in the meantime things have moved on....

Stubble to stubble, so no profit share.

Thank you - I thought so. I have not ever been involved in a s-s agreement but expect that the 'contractor' is doing quite a bit of management but without the incentive/reward of a CFA agreement.

 

[farenheit]

I suppose so - we could probably afford to keep everything but kit depreciates with age whether it is being used or not and in the meantime things have moved on....



Thank you - I thought so. I have not ever been involved in a s-s agreement but expect that the 'contractor' is doing quite a bit of management but without the incentive/reward of a CFA agreement.

You might find your kit appreciating in value if you aren't putting hours on it!!

 

[teslacoils]

I suppose so - we could probably afford to keep everything but kit depreciates with age whether it is being used or not and in the meantime things have moved on....

Nah you just flog it all. Then if you want to start, a few decent second hand buys, hire a combine, lease a main tractor.

 

[Cowcorn]

Only land agents could convince people that they are better off dividing the proceeds by two ( after they have their cut). That’s what it boils down to whichever way you look at it.

Indeed ,the land agent is the master of the three card trick !! And he always plays with loaded dice so he is never the one out of pocket .
If only farmers would co operate with one another then this man wouldnt be needed .But sadly many landowners are only looking for max return and dont give the proverbial three shites about the poor fellow laden with finance on new gear to do this work for half nothing .. In such a climate the land agent will ruthlessly exploit the contractor who " needs " the work to stay on the new and bigger merry go round .

 

[principal skinner]

I sometimes think a fresh start is what we need. Sell all the tackle and just buy/hire what we need. Use contractors as appropriate. We are absolutely lumbered up with junk.

I’ve been ruthless with old kit sales in the three years I’ve been home. (And new kit purchasing to be fair!)

 

[teslacoils]

Big, wide gear is cheap. Just go to any sized dealer and there will always be something to pull it you can get for a couple of days for £500.