Stupidly high seedrates

[Feldspar]

So yet again we seem to have some rather mediocre to poor spring crops. Some are reasonable, but some are not. The common problem is that they are just too thin. This keeps happening every year, so every subsequent year I up the rates a bit more. This year drilling at the end of April we went up to 240-270 kg/ha spring barley at 53 TGW. This equates to about 470 seeds / sq m.

Some fields we pulled up with the Claydon and then power harrowed and then drilled with the JD750a (yes, I know, not direct drilling). Others we put the 750a straight into unmoved stubble. The resulting picture is rather confusing with crops now looking better and worse relative to expectations in a number of different fields. Some pulled up fields looking not as good as expected, some looking better. Some no-till fields looking better than expected and some worse.

What is consistent though is that a lot are still far too thin despite the seed rate. My first conclusion was that the soil is just not friable enough / in good enough nick to give the fast growth that is needed. However, when you look at the overlaps, these often have, albeit over a small area of the field, a very respectable crop. Here the crop is nice and thick and looks unimpeded by the soil, and yet a few yards away in the main bit of the field the crop is very thin and looks entirely lacklustre. It can't be the soil conditions change markedly so it must be the effect of the double seed rate and / or action of the drill consolidating the soil over the already drilled seed on the overlaps.

Thing is, if I could make the rest of the field like the overlaps, I'd have a good crop, but if it takes drilling the field twice at 900 seeds / sq m is easier / cheaper to stick a cultivator through in the autumn?!

 

[Feldspar]

Bottom of picture some of the really rubbish bits of the main field with headland overlap just above that:

Headland overlap on same field:

 

[Rob Holmes]

I'd be over the moon at that and complain it was too thick

 

[Feldspar]

I'd be over the moon at that and complain it was too thick

Overlaps maybe too thick (although I can manage too thick, but too thin more tricky post drilling), but the middle of the field is really thin to walk and will let the black-grass that is there in annoying amounts given nearly May drilling date.

 

[Chae1]

@warksfarmer is a high seedrate man.

Should have followed his example this year. Spring barley grown straight up and forgot to tiller.

 

[Feldspar]

@warksfarmer is a high seedrate man.

Should have followed his example this year. Spring barley grown straight up and forgot to tiller.

I know he is, but I think even he doesn't need 0.5 t/ha of seed!

 

[Chae1]

I know he is, but I think even he doesn't need 0.5 t/ha of seed!

It's not normally a problem getting it too tiller. This is the key growth stage for Spring barley in my opinion. Ours normally looks like silage, your overlap picture.

Your overlapped areas will have had double cultivation also? Perhaps this is part of reason for thin crops.

 

[Feldspar]

It's not normally a problem getting it too tiller. This is the key growth stage for Spring barley in my opinion. Ours normally looks like silage, your overlap picture.

Your overlapped areas will have had double cultivation also? Perhaps this is part of reason for thin crops.

Only double cultivation insofar as two passes with the 750a drill rather than one, so not a huge difference, but it might be a critical bit of seed firming.

 

[Grass And Grain]

Ploughed and combi drilled at our place (tin hat on), but same observation, much greener, taller and better crop where the drill has overlapped.

This is more defined in a field which has a second barley on poor soil.

 

[Badshot]

Bottom of picture some of the really rubbish bits of the main field with headland overlap just above that:

View attachment 679316

Headland overlap on same field:
View attachment 679318

I find the headlands are the best bits, I don't really have any answers, but how thick are the volunteers? I always found the thick areas of ww volunteers pretty much knackered the spring wheat seedlings, can only put it down to disease carryover.
Bare ground has always been best, but I've not entered the world if cover crops yet.

 

[Chae1]

Our drills grain and fert so doubled bits have received double nutrients also.

 

[tw15]

Last year spring crops just sat in dry dust and didn't tiller as they should this year went in late and some land was beat to death and lost moisture and again sat in dust or had grown a bit and then when the rain came shot into reproductive mode rather than normal steady growth .
My take on it is that overlaps are 2 x seed rates and usually 2x soil n mineralization from drilling or cultivation and 2 x fert . Just on the fert side of things they are like getting nearly all the fert for the crop in one pass if on a 2 way split program for s barley.
Spring barley here was drilled @ 200 kg rising to 230 kg average yes high for normal years . We will all learn a bit from this year and others and may be able to adjust things in the future to cope with different spring time conditions.
A general thing I think is that a slightly over seed rate is cheaper to manage. A low seed rate and if that turns out not to tiller then it costs money to try to get it to tiller or as it seems to be ends up at lower tiller numbers and less ears per square meter .Ok thinner than what you consider to be needed sometimes surprise with higher bushel weights and bolder grains but doesn't always work .
Oh they joys of farming if it was easy everyone would be doing it .

 

[Simon Chiles]

So yet again we seem to have some rather mediocre to poor spring crops. Some are reasonable, but some are not. The common problem is that they are just too thin. This keeps happening every year, so every subsequent year I up the rates a bit more. This year drilling at the end of April we went up to 240-270 kg/ha spring barley at 53 TGW. This equates to about 470 seeds / sq m.

Some fields we pulled up with the Claydon and then power harrowed and then drilled with the JD750a (yes, I know, not direct drilling). Others we put the 750a straight into unmoved stubble. The resulting picture is rather confusing with crops now looking better and worse relative to expectations in a number of different fields. Some pulled up fields looking not as good as expected, some looking better. Some no-till fields looking better than expected and some worse.

What is consistent though is that a lot are still far too thin despite the seed rate. My first conclusion was that the soil is just not friable enough / in good enough nick to give the fast growth that is needed. However, when you look at the overlaps, these often have, albeit over a small area of the field, a very respectable crop. Here the crop is nice and thick and looks unimpeded by the soil, and yet a few yards away in the main bit of the field the crop is very thin and looks entirely lacklustre. It can't be the soil conditions change markedly so it must be the effect of the double seed rate and / or action of the drill consolidating the soil over the already drilled seed on the overlaps.

Thing is, if I could make the rest of the field like the overlaps, I'd have a good crop, but if it takes drilling the field twice at 900 seeds / sq m is easier / cheaper to stick a cultivator through in the autumn?!

Phosphate deficiency. I don’t care what your indices are, it was a cold spring after a wet winter which meant soil temperatures were very low, even for later sowings. Where you’ve cultivated it’s masked/cured the problem by raising soil temperatures over the unmoved soil however in a dry season you could be worse off by cultivating and loosing moisture. Maize growers know the problem so either use plastic, DAP or drill later. I’d suggest DAP is your solution either down the spout or spun on just in front of the drill.

 

[britt]

Soils have been much colder this spring. Late April drilled crops have taken twice as long to emerge than I would expect.
For spring barley, how about putting N on before drilling (if you can't put it down the spout) if it's getting very late so that it's in the soil ready for the seed.
There is also the "team" effect of higher plant populations of more root exudates etc.
This has been a very extreme spring. Make some observations, draw a few conclusions, but don't get too hung up on it. Next year will be different !

 

[Feldspar]

Phosphate deficiency. I don’t care what your indices are, it was a cold spring after a wet winter which meant soil temperatures were very low, even for later sowings. Where you’ve cultivated it’s masked/cured the problem by raising soil temperatures over the unmoved soil however in a dry season you could be worse off by cultivating and loosing moisture. Maize growers know the problem so either use plastic, DAP or drill later. I’d suggest DAP is your solution either down the spout or spun on just in front of the drill.

That is an interesting point because that particular field has index 3 at the bottom of the field where it's old meadow land. That part of the field looks much better, but then that could be from the wider benefits of meadow land (i.e. slot closure will have been much better). It's something that I've been thinking about more recently. I think we need to pay more attention to soil indicies. Tend to just put 125 kg/ha on of DAP every year (except beans) and test every so often.

What I do want to do is take soil test from our old meadow fields and then compare with normal fields. Yet again this year they continue to grow so much better crops than elsewhere.

 

[Feldspar]

Last year spring crops just sat in dry dust and didn't tiller as they should this year went in late and some land was beat to death and lost moisture and again sat in dust or had grown a bit and then when the rain came shot into reproductive mode rather than normal steady growth .
My take on it is that overlaps are 2 x seed rates and usually 2x soil n mineralization from drilling or cultivation and 2 x fert . Just on the fert side of things they are like getting nearly all the fert for the crop in one pass if on a 2 way split program for s barley.
Spring barley here was drilled @ 200 kg rising to 230 kg average yes high for normal years . We will all learn a bit from this year and others and may be able to adjust things in the future to cope with different spring time conditions.
A general thing I think is that a slightly over seed rate is cheaper to manage. A low seed rate and if that turns out not to tiller then it costs money to try to get it to tiller or as it seems to be ends up at lower tiller numbers and less ears per square meter .Ok thinner than what you consider to be needed sometimes surprise with higher bushel weights and bolder grains but doesn't always work .
Oh they joys of farming if it was easy everyone would be doing it .

Yes, they will have had extra N, but the sudden jump into single seed rate is not the fert overlap boundary because we do 5 times round the headland with a 6m drill on 24m tramlines.

Also, will two passes with a 750a (and no other cultivation) mineralise much more N?

 

[Feldspar]

Soils have been much colder this spring. Late April drilled crops have taken twice as long to emerge than I would expect.
For spring barley, how about putting N on before drilling (if you can't put it down the spout) if it's getting very late so that it's in the soil ready for the seed.
There is also the "team" effect of higher plant populations of more root exudates etc.
This has been a very extreme spring. Make some observations, draw a few conclusions, but don't get too hung up on it. Next year will be different !

We put 100kg liquid fert on nearly at drilling which was washed in within a couple of days and still have the effect.

The team effect is a very interesting comment. I have often wondered if such an effect exists. I was thinking about this yesterday; if there is a thin area of plants they seem to sort of give up on life. The obvious thought is that it's the local soil conditions, but as per above observations on overlaps, I'm not sure this is the whole story.

 

[Will Blackburn]

Also, will two passes with a 750a (and no other cultivation) mineralise much more N?

Where does the N come from, Also, will two passes with a 750a (and no other cultivation) oxidise much more organic matter?, doesn't sound as enticing then. If it needs the N/P give it some otherwise your just kicking the no-till organic matter/soil condition sweet spot ball further up the road.

 

[Clive]

That is an interesting point because that particular field has index 3 at the bottom of the field where it's old meadow land. That part of the field looks much better, but then that could be from the wider benefits of meadow land (i.e. slot closure will have been much better). It's something that I've been thinking about more recently. I think we need to pay more attention to soil indicies. Tend to just put 125 kg/ha on of DAP every year (except beans) and test every so often.

What I do want to do is take soil test from our old meadow fields and then compare with normal fields. Yet again this year they continue to grow so much better crops than elsewhere.

suprised you are not using Soyl or Rhiza etc !

 

[Feldspar]

suprised you are not using Soyl or Rhiza etc !

Have had SOYL on one farm but I'm not super convinced that it was worth the money. As with all of this, if you are Frontier you are going to set the price of the service to take as much of the extra value created as possible. They generate lots of pretty maps, but can I really see in improvement in the various different nutrient levels? I'm not sure.