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Stupidly high seedrates

Discussion in 'Direct Drilling General Discussion' started by Feldspar, Jun 6, 2018.

  1. Clayfarmer

    Clayfarmer Member

    I have noticed that there seems to be a 'Fixed Cost ' of seedling losses, which varies from year to year and area to area and the amount of primary and secondary cultivations (or lack of) is often irrelevant, so I prefer a higher seed rate to begin with, but a second pass of the drill definitely has a disproportionate effect.
     
  2. wurzell1976

    wurzell1976 Member

    Location:
    Isle of Axholme
    It"s never too thick at harvest !
     
    Clayfarmer and Feldspar like this.
  3. Chae1

    Chae1 Member

    Location:
    Aberdeenshire
    If it's a lot of small crap with low bushel weight it is. That's if it makes it to harvest still standing.
     
    Farmer Roy likes this.
  4. wurzell1976

    wurzell1976 Member

    Location:
    Isle of Axholme
    I think you have taken my comment a little too seriously,
     
    Brisel likes this.
  5. Rihards

    Rihards Member

    Location:
    Latvia
    Sb quench 440 seeds direct drilled with sumo dts g & f 200kg npk 15 15 15 in slot after ww Skagen. Only one pass with straw rake after poor claas choper stright after combine. We are on striptill 3. Year. What we learn in this time :

    1) dont make mess with tillage even shallow before drill. Better covering structure will Come to soil moisture loosing resulting in poor crop emergence if hot comes after wet.

    2) relax at home and wait right soil condition even if all of Your farm is in spring cropping

    3) put arround 10% more seeds per m2

    4) dont wotch neighbours in the field doing something, bring to rubish Your calendar.
     

    Attached Files:

  6. MattR

    MattR Member

    What about ears per seed?
     
  7. Looking at spring barley over the last few days in conditions where soil was not moved in the autumn and it is looking decidedly unhappy. Mildew and stress spotting. Unfortunately the rather big herbicide / PGR / fungicide mix has made things worse. I think I have shown to myself a bit this year that even very high seed rates will not get over difficult seedbed conditions.
     
    yellow belly likes this.
  8. Rihards

    Rihards Member

    Location:
    Latvia
    are You put some fert in slot with claydon? it helps a lot . Massive diference with or without fert in our condition.
     
  9. Breakthru

    Breakthru Member

    Location:
    Scottish Borders
    You hit the nail on the head, as stated the other two are easy, the number of seeds per ear is the key.
     
  10. MattR

    MattR Member

    What I meant was ears harvested per seed sown ☺️
     
  11. mikep

    mikep Member

    The saying that there is no such thing as an average year is the one thing most overlook.
    We had the wettest winter ever here with most of the winter planting undone
    Of the wheat we drilled over 50% was terminated in the spring.
    The land was so bad coming into March the plan was to lift it a bit too hopefully get some life back into it. One field had been cultivated in the autumn to try to get it drilled but lay bare.
    As a know the spring was a very wet one and any hope of getting pre cultivations done was shattered and we drilled Spring barley in the only fine window as it turned out in late April early may. It was all Irina at a scientific 1.5 cwt and the notill was a war of attrition to drill as it was just dry enough in the majority of the field with the rest too wet. The combination drilling was a doddle with a beautiful seedbed and perfect conditions. Below the results in two neighbouring fields I'm stunned at this and it shows that once we know all the answers then we will be getting to the Zen question "If perfection is achievable is it worth striving for?" The top one is notill. IMG_20180612_084711.jpg IMG_20180612_084349.jpg
     
  12. snarling bee

    snarling bee Member

    Location:
    Bedford
    The best WW by a mile on my farm is stuff sown at 150kg/ha twice using all the old wheat seed and part bags we had. Similarly the S Barley I drilled twice with a higher than normal seed rate (in total) has really crowded out the BG and looks good, but might be too thick.

    On our land, which is really heavy, I think the worst thing we were advised to do, a decade or so ago, was reduce seed rates. We are far better off at 350 seeds plus even for a late September/early October drilling.
     
    John Slejpner and yellow belly like this.
  13. warksfarmer

    warksfarmer Member

    Winter wheat late october / early Nov drilling farm saved seed 300kg/ha. Generally buy 1 tonne of new seed to grow on to see what it looks like, which is planted at the same time at 250kg/ha. This is cleaned and dressed.

    Winter oilseed rape late August drilling farm saved uncleaned and undressed 15kg/ha.

    Spring Barley April/May drilling farm saved undressed uncleaned 350-400kg/ha.

    Spring linseed April/May drilling uncleaned and undressed 80-100kg/ha.
     
  14. Some varieties benefit from higher seed rates
    Low seed rates are only a benefit for mid September planting that is in the rows by the end of September before the pre em has affected the stop
    Thick crops help with bg competition and with no till are not a problem with early lush growth in March if they are the growth regs may be needed
     
  15. Wow . . . :eek::eek:
     
  16. In our ( long term ) zero till Cropping we work on about 85% emergence. Taking into account germination % & field losses, we are expecting nearly all viable seeds to come up.
    Seed soil contact & planting into moisture is crucial to this. Minimal disturbance openers ( preferably disc ), presswheels, furrow closers, drag chains if needed - seed placement & soil contact is king
    Our standard dryland ( non irrigated ) rates for wheat are around 50kg / ha & canola about 2kg

    Highest plant population doesn't always equal highest yield - especially in drier conditions. Too much energy is put into vegetative growth & not grain yield . . .

    Higher plant populations can result in small or pinched grain
    High plant populations also lead to denser canopies, reduced airflow, higher humidity & increase in foliar disease . . .

    West of here, 20 - 30 kg / ha for wheat is more common

    Even under irrigation, you won't find rates much above 100kg / ha. But then, we may have a longer growing season

    with our summer row crops ( cotton, sorghum, corn, sunflowers, generally planted on wide 75cm - 100cm rows, with precision planters / individual seed metering ) our zero till seed rates are actually coming down from what they were, due to the much better planting conditions, improved seed soil contact & increased establishment %.

    In the early days of zero till here, people did increase seeding rates to compensate for " poor " establishment, but now, with better knowledge, techniques & equipment, we are getting far better establishment with zero till or direct drill than we did with conventional cultivated seedbeds.
    We find we are now reducing our seed rates as establishment is so good
    The only time we would really up our seed rates much ( apart from having low germ seed ) is if we were planting particularly late in the season

    Particularly relevant for expensive hybrid or GM seeds
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2018 at 5:44 AM
  17. just as an example, so you don't think we are only harvesting 1t / ha or something . . .

    given good moisture conditions & a kind season, Ive seen barley go 8t / ha from a planting rate of 50kg

    2 kg canola ive seen go 5t / ha

    ok, these are good yields for us, but how do they compare with the long term averages over all of the UK ?
    I don't think low seeding rates are our limiting factor
    seed placement, accurate spacings & quick, even, establishment are more important than actual seed rate
     
    cotswoldcs, Auckland Blue and KennyO like this.
  18. New Zealand is probably a better comparison for us but even they seem to like to use a lot lower seed rates than us
     
  19. DrWazzock

    DrWazzock Member

    Location:
    Lincolnshire
    Biggest mistake I made in first year of drilling into no till was upping my seed rates. I'd say it established better than plough system and I ended up with too thick a stand. I would never increase seed rates for no till. On dry land I'd reduce seed rates otherwise they just starve one another like my spring barley is doing thanks to some expert recommending a high rate, maybe it was me.
     
  20. PSQ

    PSQ Member

    Location:
    Scottish Borders
    Theres raising seed rates, and theres raising seed rates where they need to be raised.

    To know the difference you need a few years worth of yield maps, and / or satellite NDVI's / 'banana bar' readings. Spot the persistently low establishment percentage areas, quantify the establishment percentage across the field (95% to 50-55%?) and adjust seed rate files for a VRS equipped drill. Don't rob Peter to pay Paul. Sow a tramline at the old flat rate to quantify 'yield improvement'.

    My 'persistently sh!t' bits (texture issues) look great this year at a seed rate of 340kg.
     
    John Slejpner likes this.

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