Subsoiling headlands yes/no

[alomy75]

New to DD and just wondering what people do with headlands/trafficked areas. I’m sure many will say that after a few seasons of DD soil will take it but I’m just starting and have beet in the rotation (which is going in 2 more years unless seed treatments come back). I’ll only DD 2nd wheat, beans into wheat stubble and wheat into bean stubble but do worry that the combine spinning round on the ends will need attention in a damp year and if not cultivating ive certainly got time for a couple of rounds with a LD subsoiler...but should I?

 

[Deutzdx3]

New to DD and just wondering what people do with headlands/trafficked areas. I’m sure many will say that after a few seasons of DD soil will take it but I’m just starting and have beet in the rotation (which is going in 2 more years unless seed treatments come back). I’ll only DD 2nd wheat, beans into wheat stubble and wheat into bean stubble but do worry that the combine spinning round on the ends will need attention in a damp year and if not cultivating ive certainly got time for a couple of rounds with a LD subsoiler...but should I?

If any where would warrant it, headlands would certainly be it. If you feel it's right for your land and situation then do it. [emoji106]

 

[ajd132]

Unless they are absolutely trashed I have found subsoiling headlands is a worthless practice and just means they get jammed down more next time you go on them

 

[Farmer Roy]

no . . .

 

[alomy75]

Unless they are absolutely trashed I have found subsoiling headlands is a worthless practice and just means they get jammed down more next time you go on them

This is my worry...but I’ve only one field in DD this year and the headlands are definitely behind. Just wondering what to plan to do next year; after having a dig with a spade of course. Would a well timed subsoiling after the combine take out the combine wheelings and protect headlands for when I turn on them with the drill or make it more susceptible to damage...

 

[Warp Land Farmer]

For those with 12m drill headlands become “easy”.... different kettle of fish with a 3m trailer drill im afraid.

 

[ajd132]

For those with 12m drill headlands become “easy”.... different kettle of fish with a 3m trailer drill im afraid.

Fair point

 

[Fish]

We tried this when we first started no till 6 years ago, did the headland of 2 fields with a low disturbance sub soiler, result no difference, wast of time.

 

[snarling bee]

IME poor headlands will always be poor headlands.
My only worry is that we are now at 36m, so am I increasing the size of the problem?
We have made a 72m headland in one field, as it is so wet, and it has made a big difference.

 

[shakerator]

If you are going to do it , do it early

 

[jackrussell101]

We've had a grass field for 10 years and have just had 2 wheat crops off it in the last 2 years established with a plough and combi drill, should we subsoil, as would it have a plough pan? Or not bother? There should be plenty of OM in the soil... sorry to hijack thread but my query is similar to the ops

 

[Farmer Roy]

For those with 12m drill headlands become “easy”.... different kettle of fish with a 3m trailer drill im afraid.

I was about to say something similar . . .

to me, this is the biggest issue with zero till in the UK - such narrow little planters. At 3m wide, how much of the field is covered with wheel tracks ? 50% ? Or more ?
Compare that to a CTF system of 9 or 12 metres or more, on skinny tyres & permanent tracks ?

part of the reasoning behind wider gear is LESS wheeltracks & less % of the paddock being compacted . . .

 

[Will 1594]

We've had a grass field for 10 years and have just had 2 wheat crops off it in the last 2 years established with a plough and combi drill, should we subsoil, as would it have a plough pan? Or not bother? There should be plenty of OM in the soil... sorry to hijack thread but my query is similar to the ops

Do you own a spade , ,go have a dig about , you will soon find out ,

 

[ajd132]

I was about to say something similar . . .

to me, this is the biggest issue with zero till in the UK - such narrow little planters. At 3m wide, how much of the field is covered with wheel tracks ? 50% ? Or more ?
Compare that to a CTF system of 9 or 12 metres or more, on skinny tyres & permanent tracks ?

part of the reasoning behind wider gear is LESS wheeltracks & less % of the paddock being compacted . . .

This is usually my answer when we get criticism for having big gear. I would rather rather make a mark every 12m with slightly heavier kit and not mess the headlands up than be running every 4m.

 

[Farmer Roy]

This is usually my answer when we get criticism for having big gear. I would rather rather make a mark every 12m with slightly heavier kit and not mess the headlands up than be running every 4m.

we run 250 / 300 hp tractors in front of 12 m planters
Reading TFF, seems like those same tractors are in front of 3 / 4 m planters - ridiculous to me . . .

 

[ajd132]

we run 250 / 300 hp tractors in front of 12 m planters
Reading TFF, seems like those same tractors are in front of 3 / 4 m planters - ridiculous to me . . .

Yeh often the case. We have 600hp on a 12m but that is dropping to a tractor in the 350-400 range and the other 12m disc drill we share generally has 240hp on unless it’s really wet on the hills

 

[Shutesy]

I was about to say something similar . . .
to me, this is the biggest issue with zero till in the UK - such narrow little planters. At 3m wide, how much of the field is covered with wheel tracks ? 50% ? Or more ?
Compare that to a CTF system of 9 or 12 metres or more, on skinny tyres & permanent tracks ?
part of the reasoning behind wider gear is LESS wheeltracks & less % of the paddock being compacted . . .

we run 250 / 300 hp tractors in front of 12 m planters
Reading TFF, seems like those same tractors are in front of 3 / 4 m planters - ridiculous to me . . .

I don't think you are quite comparing apples with apples here.
To your first point, I would suggest there are far more farms in the UK between 200 and 1000 acres attempting to move to no-till systems than there are say 2000+ acre farms doing so. Those sub 1000 acre farms are very unlikely to be able to justify the considerable cost of new a 12m no-till seeder. Many will say buy a 2nd hand Horsch 8-12m tine type drill and convert it, might save a lot of money but good 2nd hand seeders of that sort of width aren't exactly piling up in dealers yards. Therefore many buy 3m/4m or 6m drills that they can afford. I bet they would all love a 12m drill to reduce wheelings, get drilling done quicker etc but its just not affordable. Many 3-4m drills are often £30-45k over here and £6m drills £60k+. Fudge knows how much a 12m Avatar costs.
Your 2nd point, correct me if I am wrong but a lot of your 12m planters are on roughly 50cm row spacing? Take a lot less pulling than something on 25cm (or less) row spacing. Over here 250hp ish tractors on 3-4m drills will be strip till drills like the Sumo DTS and Mzuri Pro-till with deep ripper tines, seeding coulters and press wheels that often do need large amounts of horsepower, but its a long way from the no-till that you are doing but it works well in the right situation over here. There are farmers over here using smaller (3-4m) no-till drills pulling them with 100-120hp. 6m Avatars/JD 750As seem to be picking up in popularity here behind 180hp size tractors.

 

[ajd132]

I don't think you are quite comparing apples with apples here.
To your first point, I would suggest there are far more farms in the UK between 200 and 1000 acres attempting to move to no-till systems than there are say 2000+ acre farms doing so. Those sub 1000 acre farms are very unlikely to be able to justify the considerable cost of new a 12m no-till seeder. Many will say buy a 2nd hand Horsch 8-12m tine type drill and convert it, might save a lot of money but good 2nd hand seeders of that sort of width aren't exactly piling up in dealers yards. Therefore many buy 3m/4m or 6m drills that they can afford. I bet they would all love a 12m drill to reduce wheelings, get drilling done quicker etc but its just not affordable. Many 3-4m drills are often £30-45k over here and £6m drills £60k+. Fudge knows how much a 12m Avatar costs.
Your 2nd point, correct me if I am wrong but a lot of your 12m planters are on roughly 50cm row spacing? Take a lot less pulling than something on 25cm (or less) row spacing. Over here 250hp ish tractors on 3-4m drills will be strip till drills like the Sumo DTS and Mzuri Pro-till with deep ripper tines, seeding coulters and press wheels that often do need large amounts of horsepower, but its a long way from the no-till that you are doing but it works well in the right situation over here. There are farmers over here using smaller (3-4m) no-till drills pulling them with 100-120hp. 6m Avatars/JD 750As seem to be picking up in popularity here behind 180hp size tractors.

Look in the recent farmers weekly at all the drill costs and specs. A 12m avatar is by far the most cost effective £/M disc drill on the market. I know quite a few sub 1500 acre farms buying them.

 

[JCfarmer]

we run 250 / 300 hp tractors in front of 12 m planters
Reading TFF, seems like those same tractors are in front of 3 / 4 m planters - ridiculous to me . . .

 

[Case290]

Subsoiling headlands, thinking at some point it needs something maybe not subsoil depth tho.