Succession planning.

[unlacedgecko]

Also Cinderella case .

Be interested to know how much was left was all the respective lawyers were paid.

 

[robs1]

Money and families are often very poor bedfellows.

 

[fgc325j]

Feel for you , many businesses I know seem to be stuck in this 70 -80 yrs old not actually retiring ( only in name ) it’s very difficult even with all the conversation the world, it seems the longer they go the less they want to let go.

Maybe - just maybe, every farmer, just after they've let their young son do a bit of tractor work in the school holidays, tell them to start paying into a pension scheme "so that when you get to retirement age, you have an independant off-farm income, and NOT have to depend on your children to support you".

 

[The Seeker]

Tbh I dont think it's actually a money thing its because it's a way of life, I don't think the older farmer want to be in that position either its just if thats what you have done all day all you're life its hard not to do that.

 

[BRB John]

Maybe - just maybe, every farmer, just after they've let their young son do a bit of tractor work in the school holidays, tell them to start paying into a pension scheme "so that when you get to retirement age, you have an independant off-farm income, and NOT have to depend on your children to support you".

? I don't think that's how pensions work? Surely you should of been putting money into a pension all your life and not expect your school age son to pay for your pension as well as his?

 

[unlacedgecko]

Tbh I dont think it's actually a money thing its because it's a way of life, I don't think the older farmer want to be in that position either its just if thats what you have done all day all you're life its hard not to do that.

Generally whenever I see those words its from an old rich person attempting to exploit a younger person through excessive hours and not enough pay.

 

[Still Farming]

? I don't think that's how pensions work? Surely you should of been putting money into a pension all your life and not expect your school age son to pay for your pension as well as his?

Most that never worked, on this benefit and that ,never paid a pension,or NI get EVERYTHING and better off in the end allegedly.
Who's the mugs ?

 

[thesilentone]

A tough one, thank heaven's there's only one other sibling.

If the son at home adds value to the business, then he should be recompensed, however you also need to avoid ripping the family apart after your time, as has happened so many times on family farms.

Take sound independent advice, does sibling 2 have any family, are they interested in farming, what about the son at home, what family does he have, are they interested in farming ?

Good luck, a tough one to sort.

 

[BRB John]

A tough one, thank heaven's there's only one other sibling.

If the son at home adds value to the business, then he should be recompensed, however you also need to avoid ripping the family apart after your time, as has happened so many times on family farms.

Take sound independent advice, does sibling 2 have any family, are they interested in farming, what about the son at home, what family does he have, are they interested in farming ?

Good luck, a tough one to sort.

Yeah if it was two non farming sons it's an easy 50/50 split but if one of the sons has worked for 30+ years on the farm investing his wage into the farm then he should be properly reimbursed for his investment.
In this "scenario" it sounds like the son hasn't kept a record of his contribution to the farm over the years and now will struggle to prove it if his brother doesn't want to be rational.

 

[Still Farming]

Yeah if it was two non farming sons it's an easy 50/50 split but if one of the sons has worked for 30+ years on the farm investing his wage into the farm then he should be properly reimbursed for his investment.
In this "scenario" it sounds like the son hasn't kept a record of his contribution to the farm over the years and now will struggle to prove it if his brother doesn't want to be rational.

If one interested possibly rent to him/her for a nominal rent and he/she can have a go possibly?

 

[toquark]

What has really complicated matters is the decoupling of land values from production over the last few decades. No farming sibling will ever be able to pay out others on the basis of a "fair" split for a farm that may today be worth several million. Assets will usually have to go or debt accrued which in turn may impossible to farm out of.

 

[BRB John]

What has really complicated matters is the decoupling of land values from production over the last few decades. No farming sibling will ever be able to pay out others on the basis of a "fair" split for a farm that may today be worth several million. Assets will usually have to go or debt accrued which in turn may impossible to farm out of.

The decoupling of land value to production is the only thing that's keeping most farms going...
It's probably pretty close to where it needs to be in most cases.

 

[toquark]

The decoupling of land value to production is the only thing that's keeping most farms going...
It's probably pretty close to where it needs to be in most cases.

In what way? By increasing your borrowing capacity?

 

[BRB John]

In what way? By increasing your borrowing capacity?

Indeed, the banks just see the value of the properties rather than its ability to pay.
Plus any farmer who recently bought land just to drop in value would make the banks very nervous.
So land value drop would hit both struggling farms and growing farms equally hard.

 

[toquark]

Indeed, the banks just see the value of the properties rather than its ability to pay.
Plus any farmer who recently bought land just to drop in value would make the banks very nervous.
So land value drop would hit both struggling farms and growing farms equally hard.

I’m with you now. Totally agree.

 

[JD-Kid]

Indeed, the banks just see the value of the properties rather than its ability to pay.
Plus any farmer who recently bought land just to drop in value would make the banks very nervous.
So land value drop would hit both struggling farms and growing farms equally hard.

not here if cash flow sucks banks don't want to talk to you

 

[newhollandfarmer]

Coming at it from the other point of view, it is often difficult for the older generation to divide things fairly; farm businesses are asset rich in many cases, but there is rarely enough liquid assets to provide any flexibility.

Sadly often the issue of succession and division of assets amongst the next generation is swept under the carpet, and people make assumptions with no real basis. Misconceptions become entrenched; parents tell children what they think they want to hear to placate them, with no real intention of keeping their word. The whole thing becomes a complete mess

My advice to any young person is to secure your position legally. Get documents drawn up and signed; get your share of the business capital documented in the accounts properly. Do not simply take anybody’s word for anything. If you cannot get the answers you require leave and plough your own furrow while you are still young enough.

I know of one family with four children that has family meeting to discuss the future where everything is minuted and recorded like a business board meeting. An excellent idea IMO.

Sounds all too familiar. We're having similar issues where false promises were made to ensure that a plentiful supply of free help was available over the years. Nothing has materialised, and my parents are near to retirement age now. Deathly silence when any mention of what the plan is going forward. I think as you say time to go away and plough my own furrow while we still can.

 

[BRB John]

Sounds all too familiar. We're having similar issues where false promises were made to ensure that a plentiful supply of free help was available over the years. Nothing has materialised, and my parents are near to retirement age now. Deathly silence when any mention of what the plan is going forward. I think as you say time to go away and plough my own furrow while we still can.

Yeah I think it is important to set things up properly from the start.
Don't ever take vague promises as satisfactory.
Indeed I'm afraid if you're parents aren't interested in being rational it is time to get out of there ASAP.

 

[kiwi pom]

Sounds all too familiar. We're having similar issues where false promises were made to ensure that a plentiful supply of free help was available over the years. Nothing has materialised, and my parents are near to retirement age now. Deathly silence when any mention of what the plan is going forward. I think as you say time to go away and plough my own furrow while we still can.

The problem is if you have no savings and your vehicle and house belong to the business ploughing your own furrow can be a bit grim. Just working for someone new can be a challenge if you've always been used to planning your own timetable.