Sucklers on hay

JMTHORNLEY

Member
Location
Glossop
Usually feed cows ad lib baleage. Salt licks right through then lifeline crumb on feed about 2 weeks pre and right through calving. Looking at making more hay this time due to cost of wrap. Thinking hay until new year then switch to baleage. What would people feed with it? Would be medium to good quality (hopefully) with bit of clover in it. Was thinking either molasses splashed on top, or bit of rolled barley? Cows tend to get a little fat on baleage, but not a bad thing as they can be a month or 2 inside milking calves. Or do I just risk plain hay and see how they go? Shorthorn ranging from 600 to 750 kg. Plus weaned calves.
Cows get best silage when they come in until calves are weaned, week on straw to hell drying off and then I re asses body condition and cows are fed accordingly. I try to calve at 3 -3.5 and it’s far easier to control their diets with proper good quality fodder and straw with an analysis then trying guess work with shite made fodder or hay. This year is the year to make quality not quantity and supplement with straw to bulk roughage out. I’ve also found it easier to make decent stuff than letting fodder go ‘bad’
 

Agrivator

Member
Ok, I'll ask.
How is haylage cheaper than hay?
And how is the cost of the wrap peanuts?
Some of the rest of it I'll agree with.

Even if you end up with a bale of hay and a bale of haylage with exactly the same nutrient content, the haylage is cheaper to make. It needs three fewer teddings - let's say two versus five - and it can be stored outside.

That alone can recoup the £3/bale cost of wrap ( 30 bales from a £90 roll?) And a bale of haylage also needs a bit less net wrap than a bale of hay which usually needs to be left out for a few days to cure. The real downside is the inconvenience and cost of disposing of the wrap.

But the £3/bale is a cheap insurance premium. Haylage will always be a more reliable source of nutrients - it can be cut earlier with more leaf, higher ME, higher Protein, lower loss of minerals in a catchy season, with significantly lower risk of 'dangerous spores' from moulding.

And it is far more feasible to wrap a leafy second cut in September rather than to trying to make it into hay.

I admit it is always easier for a farmer to make hay in a dry climate (25in) than in a wet climate ( 60in). And is there a farmer anywhere who successfully makes haylage but who would be happy to have to make hay instead. Even the Romans saw the benefit of making silage.
 

Poorbuthappy

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Devon
Even if you end up with a bale of hay and a bale of haylage with exactly the same nutrient content, the haylage is cheaper to make. It needs three fewer teddings - let's say two versus five - and it can be stored outside.

That alone can recoup the £3/bale cost of wrap ( 30 bales from a £90 roll?) And a bale of haylage also needs a bit less net wrap than a bale of hay which usually needs to be left out for a few days to cure. The real downside is the inconvenience and cost of disposing of the wrap.

But the £3/bale is a cheap insurance premium. Haylage will always be a more reliable source of nutrients - it can be cut earlier with more leaf, higher ME, higher Protein, lower loss of minerals in a catchy season, with significantly lower risk of 'dangerous spores' from moulding.

And it is far more feasible to wrap a leafy second cut in September rather than to trying to make it into hay.

I admit it is always easier for a farmer to make hay in a dry climate (25in) than in a wet climate ( 60in). And is there a farmer anywhere who successfully makes haylage but who would be happy to have to make hay instead. Even the Romans saw the benefit of making silage.
I don't dispute the issues around making hay in wet regions, and would rather make good wrapped stuff than poor hay. But I'll take hay over haylage/ silage anytime I can get it. And a bit of bulk for belly fill for sucklers suits me so I'm not so concerned about more leaf.
I also feed quite a bit before the cattle come in so that can be stored where they will be housed. Much of the rest is stored where I put up lambing pens so I don't need a purpose built hay shed. Even if I did, £3-4 / bale (6 layers will be 4+ and you still haven't payed for your wrapper and diesel) would soon pay for a cheap pole barn for hay.
 

Agrivator

Member
I don't dispute the issues around making hay in wet regions, and would rather make good wrapped stuff than poor hay. But I'll take hay over haylage/ silage anytime I can get it. And a bit of bulk for belly fill for sucklers suits me so I'm not so concerned about more leaf.
I also feed quite a bit before the cattle come in so that can be stored where they will be housed. Much of the rest is stored where I put up lambing pens so I don't need a purpose built hay shed. Even if I did, £3-4 / bale (6 layers will be 4+ and you still haven't payed for your wrapper and diesel) would soon pay for a cheap pole barn for hay.
I agree completely. If we buy in roughage, we will always choose good hay rather than wrapped haylage.
 
We moved from blocks to free access powdered minerals, they are much cheaper and cows tend not to over-do it quite so much, I did the same with ewes this past winter and I don't think we'll be going back to blocks for them during the winter
Cows get blocks when at grass.
 

egbert

Member
Livestock Farmer
Hay and blocks fine ,fogage if you have it .Switch to mag blocks circa march .Keep things simple. Watch cow condition.
We moved from blocks to free access powdered minerals, they are much cheaper and cows tend not to over-do it quite so much, I did the same with ewes this past winter and I don't think we'll be going back to blocks for them during the winter
Cows get blocks when at grass.
We just about never feed blocks/minerals to sucklers.
The only extra they get might be a bit of iodine on the odd bale, nearer to calving.
And this includes South Devons living out in 100" of rain.

The only routine meds is a flukicide.
 

Anymulewilldo

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Cheshire
We just about never feed blocks/minerals to sucklers.
The only extra they get might be a bit of iodine on the odd bale, nearer to calving.
And this includes South Devons living out in 100" of rain.

The only routine meds is a flukicide.
You lucky bugger! If we don’t bolus and offer minerals to our cows I could fill the wagon with barrens every year, sheep the same.
 

egbert

Member
Livestock Farmer
You lucky bugger! If we don’t bolus and offer minerals to our cows I could fill the wagon with barrens every year, sheep the same.
That did make me think though.
The SDs here are generally carrying about 90% to term*.
I might lose 2 calves per year still born/lost calving (50 cows, so 4%)
(any that get out of sequence then run the risk of calving sight unseen out on the veldt, although they're very seldom any trouble)
So rearing 86%

Acceptable?
I'm quite happy with it, given how much they get to eat.
I seldom chop a 2nd calver who skips time working too hard rearing the first, as they inevitably put on size/condition...its seldom time completely wasted

*trying to get clear of a widespread neospora problem, which has held production down in recent years...that should see 'to term' % up mebbe 5%

The Galloways are some way back from that, but then, they don't get much chance of seeing the bull, and live on much harder keep
 

Jonp

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Gwent
You lucky bugger! If we don’t bolus and offer minerals to our cows I could fill the wagon with barrens every year, sheep the same.
Well you've made me feel better.
Don't offer anything to cows or sheep except salt licks. Cows always get in calf first cycle and had two barren sheep out of 125.
You wouldn't give me a prize if you saw my grass.
 

Anymulewilldo

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Cheshire
Well you've made me feel better.
Don't offer anything to cows or sheep except salt licks. Cows always get in calf first cycle and had two barren sheep out of 125.
You wouldn't give me a prize if you saw my grass.
Our soil is that high in iron it locks minerals up. 🤦🏻‍♂️ They can go weeks and never touch the mineral licks/troughs. Then it rains and the grass shoots up, they eat minerals like they are toffee for a couple of weeks then!
 

Jonp

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Gwent
Our soil is that high in iron it locks minerals up. 🤦🏻‍♂️ They can go weeks and never touch the mineral licks/troughs. Then it rains and the grass shoots up, they eat minerals like they are toffee for a couple of weeks then!
On my forrage analysis from a few years ago I have high iron(754mg/kg) and high manganese (625mg/kg) content.
I'm sure if I put anything out with either the cows or sheeps they would do the usual thing of fighting over it and consuming it pdq.
Closed flock and herd...both are pretty healthy with minimal use of wormers etc.
 

Bowland Bob

Member
Livestock Farmer
Well you've made me feel better.
Don't offer anything to cows or sheep except salt licks. Cows always get in calf first cycle and had two barren sheep out of 125.
You wouldn't give me a prize if you saw my grass.
Our Luings supplemented with a bit of hay on the fell through winter.. they get Iodine over their backs a few weeks before calving. That's it. They all got in calf last year. All calved with no issues until the last one which had got abit fit and needed pulling
 

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