Sulphate of potash

Thedual1

Member
Presumably you have deficiency in boron, copper and mag too?

What are you typical ph phil?
Soil pH on arable is 5.8 - 6.2 lots of potatoes in rotations !
Grass land 5.4 - 5.8 !! Farmers treat grass like crap, not a crop

We are deficient in calcium, magnesium, potash, copper, zinc, boron and molybdenum. Soils are high in phosphate but not available to crop as it is not in solution. According many of my colleagues we have high magnesium levels, but when the but the figures through Albrecht they are all deficient.

I used to use a lot of Majik manganese but now use another manganese, not through choice !!!

The high magnesium is antagonising the potash so the application of gypsum or Calcifert S will help strip the magnesium out the soil.
As you will be applying quite a it of sulphur this will antagonise copper, but you have it covered with a foliar feed. Magik manganese with it's added potash will help as long as you put on with every application.
Another option would be Kudos from Headland.

I am busy doing work on potash on soils with indexes of less than one, and trying to update figures for maximum uptake for winter wheat crops in excess of 8t/ha (PDA figures)I am looking at 2 options a 3 year plan to raise to required index in 3 years or the fertiliser company pension scheme, little and often and never raise the index.
 

Thedual1

Member
Boron and copper will show low everywhere
Mg not so much deficient but starting to fall off now
May need to start using kieserite
Was very high in mg but using high calcium lime has helped along with sulphur
Easy enough to balance
The high calcium lime will antagonise both phosphate and boron, so best backed up with foliar. I did quite a few trials last year on spring barley, winter barley and winter wheat with both foliar molybdenum and boron.
In spring barley there was a definite reduction in blind grain sites. Soil Copper and zinc levels were very good as the site is on a piggery that gets lots of FYM and slurry.

Kieserite is a good product also supplies sulphur, so once again watch antagonism with copper.

I have started using mag lime to fix magnesium and calcium imbalances, been a struggle getting a decent product that I can guarantee how much calcium and magnesium it contains. If I put on too much magnesium I end up antagonising magnesium, therefore it is essential a full base saturation based soil survey is undertaken, before any recommendations of applications are made.
 

Thedual1

Member
Mag lime was also spread, ground is shale underlay so mg soil, one hit of Mag lime will drive mg through the roof
Calcium lime only option
Now when needed I will blend small amount of mg lime with calcium
Another option would be CalcifertMag if you can get it that is. 30%CaO plus 19%MgO, 125-250kg/ha will suffice. It has the same analysis as the Ulapool mag lime I use.
 

phil

Member
Location
Wexford
Another option would be CalcifertMag if you can get it that is. 30%CaO plus 19%MgO, 125-250kg/ha will suffice. It has the same analysis as the Ulapool mag lime I use.
Meant to say was that Mag lime was always spread in my area over the years, people just spread lime and that happened to be high mag lime , we joke he was a very good salesman
 

Thedual1

Member
A lot of Fife in Scotland is in the same situation whack on loads of mag lime and lock up potash. Ah well that's what lifters are for on combines.
 

Thedual1

Member
You must think I am on Commision to Francis Flowers pushing Calcifert products, I have used their products for many years now, none of the competitors can do what theirs do.

My party piece is get a test tube put in some vinegar put in some Calciifert and put in the bung and give it a shake, you see how reactive it is as it pops the cork. Try this with the other products in the market place.

Nothing beats good quality ground calicium lime for raising pH, the same goes for mag lime where magnesium is required.
 

Thedual1

Member
Do you need mg lime, a small amount seems to go along way
I am looking at applications of 0.5 to 1t/acre max as 1t/acre is supplying 190kg of MgO. Some idiots have been applying 6t/acre of the mag lime from Hull, cheap as chips but fatal for potash
 
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phil

Member
Location
Wexford
Lucky locally that there is high quality ground calcium limestone and mag lime available, also have Calcifert lime as granular and Calcifert S and kieserite so can fine tune
 

Thedual1

Member
I have a new source of ground calcium lime, still only 33% CaO, but 90% below 2mm. The other option is the same level,of CaO but about 40% grit. The other is 18-20% CaO with 30% grit.

Calcifert Mag is worth a try if you can get it, all depends on your soil sulphur levels, Kieserite can antagonise copper as it apples sulphur.

It's great when you have products that you know exactly what your putting on so you can find adjust applications and do the job more efficiently and in the long run improve yields and make businesses more profitable.
 
Location
Cheshire
I have a new source of ground calcium lime, still only 33% CaO, but 90% below 2mm. The other option is the same level,of CaO but about 40% grit. The other is 18-20% CaO with 30% grit.

Calcifert Mag is worth a try if you can get it, all depends on your soil sulphur levels, Kieserite can antagonise copper as it apples sulphur.

It's great when you have products that you know exactly what your putting on so you can find adjust applications and do the job more efficiently and in the long run improve yields and make businesses more profitable.
Sulphur is very soluble, you would do well to build up levels to antagonistic levels without repeated over application.
 

Thedual1

Member
The worst case I have ever seen was on grassland, previous crop was potatoes sprayed off with sulphuric acid. The grassland all got 250kg/ha 26N + 35So3. The grass just didn't perform and both soil and leaf analysis were taken both showed very high sulphur and extremely low copper.
 

York

Member
Location
D-Berlin
View attachment 266220
I was planning some Calcifert S here,
now this is not a challenging case, or?
With a TEC >10 not much is needed.
Ca: 61%
Mg: 20%
desired level: 68 : 12
where is the challenge?
Chuck on some Gypsum, raise the Ca to 68% will lower the Mg by 7% = 13%, almost spot on. (for ease of discussion I dropped the decimal)
Calcifert S:
is it this stuff?
http://www.calcifert.co.uk/calcifert-s.aspx
Don't know why they don't call it Gypsum when they claim it's pH neutral. The BIG question is: is it a Gypsum or is it a lime with "incorporated" S, which in this case has to be elemental S (elemental).
Nothing magic about it.
We have more soils which are like:
TEC: Ca: / Mg: both %
25 73% 20%
36 85% 5%
45 91% 5%
45 79% 15%
York-Th.
 

phil

Member
Location
Wexford
now this is not a challenging case, or?
With a TEC >10 not much is needed.
Ca: 61%
Mg: 20%
desired level: 68 : 12
where is the challenge?
Chuck on some Gypsum, raise the Ca to 68% will lower the Mg by 7% = 13%, almost spot on. (for ease of discussion I dropped the decimal)
Calcifert S:
is it this stuff?
http://www.calcifert.co.uk/calcifert-s.aspx
Don't know why they don't call it Gypsum when they claim it's pH neutral. The BIG question is: is it a Gypsum or is it a lime with "incorporated" S, which in this case has to be elemental S (elemental).
Nothing magic about it.
We have more soils which are like:
TEC: Ca: / Mg: both %
25 73% 20%
36 85% 5%
45 91% 5%
45 79% 15%
York-Th.
Agreed York

That was about the most difficult one I have, in general it's a small amount of cal Sul or kieserite to balance

The highest yielding field this harvest was also the one that was ideally balanced

As you say not much of a challenge but a worthwhile one none the less
 

Thedual1

Member
now this is not a challenging case, or?
With a TEC >10 not much is needed.
Ca: 61%
Mg: 20%
desired level: 68 : 12
where is the challenge?
Chuck on some Gypsum, raise the Ca to 68% will lower the Mg by 7% = 13%, almost spot on. (for ease of discussion I dropped the decimal)
Calcifert S:
is it this stuff?
http://www.calcifert.co.uk/calcifert-s.aspx
Don't know why they don't call it Gypsum when they claim it's pH neutral. The BIG question is: is it a Gypsum or is it a lime with "incorporated" S, which in this case has to be elemental S (elemental).
Nothing magic about it.
We have more soils which are like:
TEC: Ca: / Mg: both %
25 73% 20%
36 85% 5%
45 91% 5%
45 79% 15%
York-Th.
Biggest problem with gypsum is that you are restricted to 1 tonne/ha so not going to go very far. Great product and extremely cheap
 
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Thedual1

Member
The Environment Agency (EA) release a low risk waste position on the landspreading of waste gypsum.
Recycled gypsum from waste plasterboard spread on agricultural land is subject to waste controls. It may be spread on agricultural land to confer benefit under Standard Rules Permit SR2010 No. 4 (Mobile plant for landspreading) but is not included in the list of wastes covered by exemption U10 (Spreading waste on agricultural land to confer benefit). In advance of any national review of the current U10 exemption, the EA has released a Low Risk Waste Position, see below related documents.

This will enable recycled gypsum from waste plasterboard (waste code 19 12 12) and flue-gas desulphurisation gypsum (waste code 10 01 05) to be spread on agricultural land as a substitute fertiliser without the need for a permit as long as the position conditions are followed.

Rates must be no greater than 1 tonne per hectare in any 12 month period.

Further details appear in the position but, in summary, the material must only be spread where there is a fertiliser need and it must not be spread within 50m of a potable water borehole or 10m of surface water. The Code of Good Agricultural Practice must be followed.

To address the issue of variability and potential
awww_nfuonline_com_assets_22390_.jpg
physical contamination the reprocessed gypsum from plasterboard should be certified. The most commonly used specification for the production of reprocessed gypsum from waste plasterboard is PAS 109:2013.

This Low Risk Position is intended for the low volume use of waste gypsum as a substitute agricultural fertiliser, and not for the typically higher volume use as a conditioner to improve soil structure. This higher volume use can still be undertaken under Standard Rules Permit SR2010 No. 4 (Mobile plant for landspreading).
 

damaged

Member
Location
Gloucestershire
@Thedual1 , having high mag clays and gypsum being often recommended, what do you class as 'extremely cheap' ?. I am based in South West in a clay valley between cotswold hills.At this location Limestone is cheap ish. Gypsum is not by comparison .
I freely admit my A level chemistry knowledge has slipped.
 

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109: Monitor Farm takeover

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109: Monitor Farm takeover

Written by AHDB

The first episode in the Farm Excellence series of the AHDB podcast focuses on cereals & oilseeds. The Monitor Farm programme comprises a network of farmers from across the UK and Northern Ireland committed to driving innovation and best practice. They host regular meetings at their farms in which they discuss issues facing agriculture in their...
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