Sumo DD Spring Drilling

[MDA]

@MDA : do you have an extra spring on the seed firmer ? As standard they are not stiff enough, especially at high speed.
The other thing on them is that they do wear, and with a lot of acres/year on the drill they will need to be changed every other year (as seen on precision planters equiped).

When you say seed firmer, do you mean our spiked closing wheels at the back? Originally we pinned them into a fixed position behind the disc but it soon became apparent that they needed to articulate in their own plane separate from the disc to do a consistent job of following the seeding trench. The weight of the wheel and linkage on its own seems to be enough for them to do their job in good to average conditions. We tried adding ballast weight last week to a few but they dug in too much and created too much disturbance. We may try again with less weight or even an adjustable spring loaded linkage. Our spiked closing wheels are designed hopefully to remain effective as they wear, will be easy to change and will be cheap compared to other types of closing wheel. Made from hardox, you should get pretty good wear rates!

 

[MDA]

We were worried about this headland when we drilled it as the ground was pretty tight and the drill was slotting quite a bit. It was not rolled as it was deemed this would do more harm than good,think this was the right decision.

 

[MDA]

More from same field

 

[MDA]

This field which was adjoining the one we drilled had received a cultivation pass in autumn, and once more in spring before being drilled by a disc drill at the same time as ours.
There is quite a flush of BLW's between the rows.

 

[normandyfarmer]

When you say seed firmer, do you mean our spiked closing wheels at the back? Originally we pinned them into a fixed position behind the disc but it soon became apparent that they needed to articulate in their own plane separate from the disc to do a consistent job of following the seeding trench. The weight of the wheel and linkage on its own seems to be enough for them to do their job in good to average conditions. We tried adding ballast weight last week to a few but they dug in too much and created too much disturbance. We may try again with less weight or even an adjustable spring loaded linkage. Our spiked closing wheels are designed hopefully to remain effective as they wear, will be easy to change and will be cheap compared to other types of closing wheel. Made from hardox, you should get pretty good wear rates!

No, the keeton seed firmer in the furrow, not your closing wheel !

 

[MDA]

No, the keeton seed firmer in the furrow, not your closing wheel !

Cheap component, very easy to replace, not seen any significant wear on them yet all this spring. Seem to work well behind the coulter outlet shadow regardless of speed.

 

[Feldspar]

I reckon any zero-till drill will be successful 90% of the time in 90% of situations, last autumn and this spring any of the various brands would have been absolutely fine and put good crops in

What your looking for is a drill that will still succeed in that 10% of the time when the others fail, that's not so easy

And that is bascially the Cross Slot argument: "Our drill will work 75% (or whatever) of that 10% of the time when other drills struggle. The difference between a drill being successful 90% of the time and 97.5% of the time pays for a the extra cost of a Cross Slot".

I have to say, having seen the very slight differences in coulter performance / soil conditions that produce very different results (i.e. seed firmed in moist soil versus seed open to surface, prone to drying / being eaten by rooks / slugs / etc), I really do want the best coulter on the market whatever that may be.

 

[Badshot]

And that is bascially the Cross Slot argument: "Our drill will work 75% (or whatever) of that 10% of the time when other drills struggle. The difference between a drill being successful 90% of the time and 97.5% of the time pays for a the extra cost of a Cross Slot".

I have to say, having seen the very slight differences in coulter performance / soil conditions that produce very different results (i.e. seed firmed in moist soil versus seed open to surface, prone to drying / being eaten by rooks / slugs / etc), I really do want the best coulter on the market whatever that may be.

We are all chasing the perfect drill, it doesn't exist yet, take a cross slot into a field like we've had the last three autumn's and it's going one way, straight down.

 

[Feldspar]

We are all chasing the perfect drill, it doesn't exist yet, take a cross slot into a field like we've had the last three autumn's and it's going one way, straight down.

I think a more viable way for us at the moment is just to have several drills which do different things.

 

[Clive]

And that is bascially the Cross Slot argument: "Our drill will work 75% (or whatever) of that 10% of the time when other drills struggle. The difference between a drill being successful 90% of the time and 97.5% of the time pays for a the extra cost of a Cross Slot".

I have to say, having seen the very slight differences in coulter performance / soil conditions that produce very different results (i.e. seed firmed in moist soil versus seed open to surface, prone to drying / being eaten by rooks / slugs / etc), I really do want the best coulter on the market whatever that may be.

I agree that's their argument however I'm yet to see any proof of it

Not running it against a 750a in the UK when asked does not help that argument

 

[Feldspar]

Not running it against a 750a in the UK when asked does not help that argument

There should be enough owners of both drills in the next year or two to allow a farmer trial independent of manufacturers.

 

[dontknowanything]

There should be enough owners of both drills in the next year or two to allow a farmer trial independent of manufacturers.

Will a CS owner who's just spent £30k per meter on their drill really want to know if something a third the price does as good a job?

 

[clbarclay]

Sure, being involved in the trial they could always sell it for good money before the results become widespread.

 

[SilliamWhale]

Sure, being involved in the trial they could always sell it for good money before the results become widespread.

@dontknowanything has seen the NZ trials with the cross slot. They didn't really mean much statistically (in fact they were a little bit disingenuous) but I think it doesn't really matter - if someone has got a cross slot and paid up then that is what they will use for the forseeable, the same with a sumo or a 750. All drills would probably be capable of yielding similar results much like they did in Clives demo last year. At some point you just make a choice on what you like most and accept the pro's and con's with each - it probably won't be that crucial to profitability in the end (once you've paid it off).

Tis only a lump of metal - manufacturers want you to feel your standing on the shoulders of giants of course but its still only box steel and a few discs whatever the colour.

 

[dontknowanything]

@dontknowanything has seen the NZ trials with the cross slot. They didn't really mean much statistically (in fact they were a little bit disingenuous) but I think it doesn't really matter - if someone has got a cross slot and paid up then that is what they will use for the forseeable, the same with a sumo or a 750. All drills would probably be capable of yielding similar results much like they did in Clives demo last year. At some point you just make a choice on what you like most and accept the pro's and con's with each - it probably won't be that crucial to profitability in the end (once you've paid it off).

Tis only a lump of metal - manufacturers want you to feel your standing on the shoulders of giants of course but its still only box steel and a few discs whatever the colour.

If you want to just take the ones used in the CS brochure it's fairly clear cut...!

 

[SilliamWhale]

View attachment 146344
If you want to just take the ones used in the CS brochure it's fairly clear cut...!

Youd have to pretty gullible to swallow that.

 

[Feldspar]

OK, so I should have learned by now not to mention CS. My fault. Probably best to add to the old CS threads if it's going to start up again!

 

[dontknowanything]

OK, so I should have learned by now not to mention CS. My fault. Probably best to add to the old CS threads if it's going to start up again!

eighth bitten ninth shy?

 

[MDA]

Drilling mustard into some green cover today gave us a chance to try a few coulter bottoms with different tungsten arrangements on them to asses soil flow and disturbance. We now have a good idea after our drill testing demos, for the ideal position of tungsten to give the best performance out of the opener.
Another observation, shallower sowing depth= more furrow break out on stiffer ground.

 

[Feldspar]

Wheat is coming up now. Being the latest drilled in the area the rooks have been having a go at it. Also, to my horror and surprise, I found some seed hollowing and a few slugs. Slug activity when it had been so dry and this late in the spring with fast germinating seeds ought to be illegal. I think there will have been a little bit of damage but difficult to say how much. I think the seed rate should have been higher (some seed still coming through but even still). This is one of my main current battles at the moment.

To the eye the Sumo area looks better than the Claydon drilled bit. I think though that this is an optical illusion to an extent. The wider rows of the Claydon do not make the rows look as thick as the Sumo ones. I also think the the raked area is definitely more even down the row than the unraked area with not an obvious increase in the amount of germinated BG.

The boundary between Claydon and Sumo areas:

Raked Sumo DD area: