Sustainable farming incentive details published today 2 December 2021

[Janet Hughes Defra]

Our (your) DEFRA representative (& Useless, on a FG podcast interview) has said that will be changing. We will be helped to rectify minor discrepancies, rather than incur the draconian penalties that EU (boo, hiss ) regulations stipulated.

Yes, it's changing - we're making the schemes less prescriptive, and making inspections and enforcement more supportive and less punitive. We've set out how we propose to do that in this document (search for agreement monitoring): https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...ow-the-scheme-will-work-in-2022#scheme-policy

 

[Azlett]

Oh go on then, I will bite .

You saying I come across as a smart arse ? 100%. I have been saying what ELMS should look like from the very first days of it being discussed on here. I said what the SFI needs to look like, and why, before Defra had even started calling it the SFI. It's all attached. They will get there in the end. Smart arsey enough for you ?

I have also tried, very hard, to get folks on here to share their co-design submissions.
https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/elms-co-design-submissions.339171/
Next to no success with that one, as all the muppets on here want to do is bitch and whinge rather than actually make constructive suggestions.

Smart arse and patronizing in one post. You're welcome .

Hi,
I am very supportive and largely agree with your proposals. But do you not think there is a good case for area payments for grazed temporary grassland/herbal ley, along with hay, haylage, herbage, as part of an arable rotation? I am not convinced of the benefit of any area payments for arable-only farms.

All the best

 

[Janet Hughes Defra]

Hi thats not totally clear.If you have one field of 50 hectares ,is it 50 tests for SOM.
YOUR WRITTEN DEFRA .GOV STATEMENT SAYS
" land parcel is a field."
info detail on SOM says,
SOM"applies to all land parcels(ie fields from above) in the standard.
I think the current wording is unclear and needs to be rewritten to clearly state what you require,
do you want SOM per field entered ?
or once for whole hectareage ?
or for a certain number of hectares.?
many thanks

You can choose which parcels of land to enter into SFI. The requirements of SFI relate to the whole area you have entered into the scheme - for SOM tests, the requirements will be set on a per hectare basis, not a per parcel basis.

We'll publish guidance on this before we launch the scheme, so it's absolutely clear what you need to do. We'll also take a look at the wording in the document to make that clearer too.

 

[Janet Hughes Defra]

It was clear until @Janet Hughes Defra mentioned a sample per ha, (which I can’t actually believe is correct). It seems what is actually going to be required is evolving in front of us.

I'm sorry if I've confused - the requirements will apply to all the land you've entered into SFI, and the guidance will say what you need to do no a per hectare (not per parcel) basis. We will set this out in guidance before we launch the scheme so you can see what's required.

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

Yes, that's exactly what it means - you'll get paid for the SFI standard on the are of the parcel that's not covered by the CS option

Hi Janet, thanks for the reply.

Further to my earlier question, if say on 100 ha I had 15 ha of cs options and I wanted to apply the SFI to the rest of the 100 ha, would the computer cope with me moving my cs options (eg gs4 and ab9) rotationally so that the SFI automatically applied to wherever the C's options were not being grown?

 

[neilo]

I'm sorry if I've confused - the requirements will apply to all the land you've entered into SFI, and the guidance will say what you need to do no a per hectare (not per parcel) basis. We will set this out in guidance before we launch the scheme so you can see what's required.

Hi Janet,
there was some difference over the weekend in how people interpreted your 'per hectare not per parcel' sampling requirement. Can you confirm if that means one sample for each hectare entered in the scheme, or one sample for each 5ha (for example) block, etc?

Some fields/land parcels in the Eastern Counties might be 40ha or more, whereas in more pastoral areas they could be less than 0.5ha.

 

[Goweresque]

On the intermediate grassland standard 15% must be placed into herbal leys. If all your grassland is old PP does that not mean ripping it up and planting a new ley? With all the accompanying use of chemicals and fuel and destruction of the soil OM via cultivation? Does this not run entirely contrary to what we are told we are supposed to be doing?

 

[Vader]

@Janet Hughes Defra
Just a thought.
If the idea is more SOM for arable, then probably means turn on the combibe chopper..
But might this then have knock on effect onto stock farms as straw becomes short?
Or even for power stations..?

If price of straw rises due to a lot of chopping, then might be more profit not doing scheme and just sell off all the straw....
Just pointing out the path ahead as gov departments always seem to lack in joined up thinking.
Lot of things are as they are now as its a balance thats been found over time. Schemes tend to change things and have unintended consequences

 

[yellow belly]

@Janet Hughes Defra
Just a thought.
If the idea is more SOM for arable, then probably means turn on the combibe chopper..
But might this then have knock on effect onto stock farms as straw becomes short?
Or even for power stations..?

If price of straw rises due to a lot of chopping, then might be more profit not doing scheme and just sell off all the straw....
Just pointing out the path ahead as gov departments always seem to lack in joined up thinking.
Lot of things are as they are now as its a balance thats been found over time. Schemes tend to change things and have unintended consequences

we should not be burning straw for fuel when it can be used for food or soil organic matter improvement
straw is being transported considerable distances to power stations using more energy than is in the straw round trips of over 100 miles all subisidised by the electricity users

 

[ajd132]

we should not be burning straw for fuel when it can be used for food or soil organic matter improvement
straw is being transported considerable distances to power stations using more energy than is in the straw round trips of over 100 miles all subisidised by the electricity users

Burning straw does seem mental to me

 

[BrianV]

Considering we left the EU over 5 years ago & the Tory government was well aware of their plans regarding the Single Farm Payment scheme it seems somewhat worrying that DEFRA now need a further two years to perfect their simplified scheme, as far as I can see we do not know yet what we are being asked to sign up for as so much of it is still planning to be amended over the next couple of years.

 

[Huno]

Hi Janet, thanks for the reply.

Further to my earlier question, if say on 100 ha I had 15 ha of cs options and I wanted to apply the SFI to the rest of the 100 ha, would the computer cope with me moving my cs options (eg gs4 and ab9) rotationally so that the SFI automatically applied to wherever the C's options were not being grown?

No.. the computers at the RPA cannot cope with rotational parcel changes annually in my experience... That is why this is too complicated unless the BPS and CS databases are used for SFI applications aswell. RPA is is already understaffed and another database will confuse the pre payment staff further.. sorry to answer your question At Janet Hughes...

 

[Huno]

@Janet Hughes Defra
Just a thought.
If the idea is more SOM for arable, then probably means turn on the combibe chopper..
But might this then have knock on effect onto stock farms as straw becomes short?
Or even for power stations..?

If price of straw rises due to a lot of chopping, then might be more profit not doing scheme and just sell off all the straw....
Just pointing out the path ahead as gov departments always seem to lack in joined up thinking.
Lot of things are as they are now as its a balance thats been found over time. Schemes tend to change things and have unintended consequences

BEIS and DEFRA are two different gov departments who dont speak to each other so yes bed and chop it into your soil or burn it... just choose which department you want to work with

 

[Huno]

Burning straw does seem mental to me

Burning too much diesil during tillage and fert made from gas is more mental. 1tonne of fuel for 10 tonnes of wheat!! Bonkers!!

 

[Huno]

we should not be burning straw for fuel when it can be used for food or soil organic matter improvement
straw is being transported considerable distances to power stations using more energy than is in the straw round trips of over 100 miles all subisidised by the electricity users

Are we allowed to burn our own straw fuel and put everything back into our own soil then? Or is that wrong??

 

[yellow belly]

Burning too much diesil during tillage and fert made from gas is more mental. 1tonne of fuel for 10 tonnes of wheat!! Bonkers!!

its the distance it travels that is bonkers

 

[yellow belly]

Burning too much diesil during tillage and fert made from gas is more mental. 1tonne of fuel for 10 tonnes of wheat!! Bonkers!!

the co2 produced from fertilser is an essential ingredient to feed the uk population

without the fertiliser the uk would import more food from across the world depriving others

 

[Huno]

You can choose which parcels of land to enter into SFI. The requirements of SFI relate to the whole area you have entered into the scheme - for SOM tests, the requirements will be set on a per hectare basis, not a per parcel basis.

We'll publish guidance on this before we launch the scheme, so it's absolutely clear what you need to do. We'll also take a look at the wording in the document to make that clearer too.

Got to be one SoM test per parcel surely? Thats what most folks do now with a W shape across the parcel. If it is per Ha £40 wont go far!!

 

[Huno]

its the distance it travels that is bonkers

Trees from USA shipped to Drax in yorkshire is mad!!

 

[B'o'B]

I'm sorry if I've confused - the requirements will apply to all the land you've entered into SFI, and the guidance will say what you need to do no a per hectare (not per parcel) basis. We will set this out in guidance before we launch the scheme so you can see what's required.

If it is prescribed as a sample for each Ha, and considering it is being done solely to inform management decisions on individual farms. Then it is complete overkill and will massively discourage uptake because of costs, both monetary and time.

I hope you mean a test sample will be required every 10-25Ha and that test sample should be made up from 10-25 subsamples.

There is absolutely no need for any more detailed results than this for the stated aim of the requirement, in fact even that is probably double what is needed to inform soil management decisions.